SSE Civil War: a Third Way

[keithbk]

Engaging in the Skyrim Civil War forces the player to choose sides, either Empire or Stormcloak.

 

But during my playthrough, I don't like the Stormcloaks or Ulfric, and as a member of the Dark Brotherhood, I assassinate the Emperor.

 

Personally, I'd like to be able to play a "third way" in the Civil War. I want to bring down the Stormcloaks, cripple the Empire, destroy the Thalmor, and marry Elisif the Fair by force of conquest, becoming High King of Skyrim.

 

Now, I'm sure there are people who are saying, "No, you cannot do that, that will go against future lore in Elder Scrolls 6" or something like that... don't care.

 

I want to unite the Skyrim province under me, the Dragonborn High King. I want to take the throne. I want those loyal to the empire to be forced out of Skyrim and everyone else to swear loyalty to me. I've already assassinated the Emperor. I want to cleanse the land of the Thalmor. And I don't want the wannabe Dragonborn Ulfric (and potential Thalmor spy) as competition.

 

Anyone else want to play this outcome? Anyone else tired of choosing between sides you don't like? It's more fun just assassinating the people who oppose you. All those troops (Empire or Stormcloak) end up uniting under the Dragonborn banner and stop killing each other. Those who attempt to remain loyal to the Empire leave, and the Stormcloaks are happy enough with your leadership after you expose Ulfric as a Thalmor spy...

 

GIVE US A THIRD WAY!!!! Just like the Paarthurnax Dilemma!

[Strokend]

Plenty of in-game dialog already mentions that both sides are less-than-perfect. If nothing exists, that would be surprising, but I'm certainly not easily finding any on a quick search.

[keithbk]

I'm pretty certain my idea does not exist.

 

I look at it this way; I end up becoming thane of every part of Skyrim anyway, so I should be able to persuade the Jarl's to side with me if I have a strong-enough Persuasion check, I should be able to undermine the entire siege of Whiterun by assassinating Ulfric and giving Galmar the option to obey me or die (another persuasion check), and post-assassination of the Emperor, I should be the person who gives the Imperials in Solitude the ultimatum to unite behind me as Dragonborn, should I be able to win the hand of Elisif the Fair (or maybe have an option to force her to marry me).

 

I absolutely DON'T expect the Thalmor to accept my leadership in ANY situation, so they would have to be eliminated, so that would be a fun storyline all on its own.

 

Once I complete this Civil War quest, the war would be over and both Stormcloaks and Imperials would have to wear the uniform of the Dragonborn High King of Skyrim, or leave the shores.

 

Whether you include repercussions based on this storyline would be up to the mod author, but I doubt a leaderless Empire would pose much of a threat. I would expect assassination teams sent by the Thalmor. The Stormcloak faction should be happy enough that I did what Ufric could not.

Edited August 14, 2021 by keithbk

[keithbk]

We also know that there are various factions in each hold seeking to oppose the existing Jarl.

 

Each of these "alternates" should be people we can conspire with to overthrow the existing Jarl. They come to power in the original Civil War storyline based on whichever faction ends up winning the war. Why not use this component in a "third way?"

 

Because you may not remember (or know) which people/families oppose the existing Jarls, rumors could be heard in tavern talk with questions like, "Does everyone here support the Jarl?" Then you hear about the Battleborns or the Sliver Blood Family, etc. Once you have that bit of information, you can then work to conspire against the sitting Jarl if you simply don't like them.

 

Just some more ideas that popped into my head...

[Strokend]

I'm pretty certain my idea does not exist.

 

I look at it this way; I end up becoming thane of every part of Skyrim anyway, so I should be able to persuade the Jarl's to side with me if I have a strong-enough Persuasion check, I should be able to undermine the entire siege of Whiterun by assassinating Ulfric and giving Galmar the option to obey me or die (another persuasion check), and post-assassination of the Emperor, I should be the person who gives the Imperials in Solitude the ultimatum to unite behind me as Dragonborn, should I be able to win the hand of Elisif the Fair (or maybe have an option to force her to marry me).

 

I absolutely DON'T expect the Thalmor to accept my leadership in ANY situation, so they would have to be eliminated, so that would be a fun storyline all on its own.

 

Once I complete this Civil War quest, the war would be over and both Stormcloaks and Imperials would have to wear the uniform of the Dragonborn High King of Skyrim, or leave the shores.

 

Whether you include repercussions based on this storyline would be up to the mod author, but I doubt a leaderless Empire would pose much of a threat. I would expect assassination teams sent by the Thalmor. The Stormcloak faction should be happy enough that I did what Ufric could not.

Some people on the Stormcloak's side just wanted an end to the Thalmor and traitorous empire, but others were there just for Ulfric himself, so I could see there also being Stormcloak assassins. Likewise, if you've attacking the empire, imperials could do the same.

 

We also know that there are various factions in each hold seeking to oppose the existing Jarl.

 

Each of these "alternates" should be people we can conspire with to overthrow the existing Jarl. They come to power in the original Civil War storyline based on whichever faction ends up winning the war. Why not use this component in a "third way?"

 

Because you may not remember (or know) which people/families oppose the existing Jarls, rumors could be heard in tavern talk with questions like, "Does everyone here support the Jarl?" Then you hear about the Battleborns or the Sliver Blood Family, etc. Once you have that bit of information, you can then work to conspire against the sitting Jarl if you simply don't like them.

 

Just some more ideas that popped into my head...

Aren't most of the alternate Jarls specifically in support of the opposite faction though? If you exile or kill an Imperial Jarl, a Stormcloak Jarl would still not be a fan of the Dragonborn trying to steal the throne from Ulfric. Sorli, Maven, Brunwulf, and Kraldar seem to be the neutral alternatives.

As for the default Jarls: Laila, Idgrod, and Balgruuf seem like they would be willing to support the Dragonborn. Laila openly casts her town in with the Stormcloaks, but also admits that she only did so because Ulfric was the only one who could help against the empire; the other two state that they're more neutral and only take a side once the player joins the war.

[keithbk]

While it is true that the alternate Jarls support opposing factions, some of them (Silver Bloods, for example), are likely far more self-serving and power hungry.

 

I'm not saying every Hold has an easy ally, but some have different motivations. Those who support the Stormcloaks and hate the Thalmor are easy allies. Those who want their own path to power are easily persuaded. A few loyalists may be difficult to persuade, but each of the existing Jarls give the Thane title to the Dragonborn for his assistance with, at times, very personal matters. All of this should count toward your ability to secure support.

 

My idea does not include ANY sieges of Whiterun; in fact, that storyline gets dropped completely. I would like to see each of the Stormcloak and Imperial camps throughout the region being given the option to join or die. If I cannot persuade them to my faction, they attack. If I do persuade them, their banner changes to that of the Dragonborn High King.