Archery mod- The real factors.

[todd92371]

Hello,

I wanted to ask something in regards to archery in the game.

I came upon this interesting article about the inability of arrows to pierce armor in a lot of cases

http://www.benjaminrose.com/post/can-arrows-penetrate-medieval-armor/

It seems to me that the arrows potential to do damage in the game should primarily be locational. In other words- it's place of impact. Face..... arms..... and anything exposed. I'm sure that arrows could pierce certain armors. But, it seems to me a primary component of the damage formula for arrows should be if it hits non protected areas?

What do you think.

 

Came upon this interesting quote also. From this article. http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-16614.html

"No arrow can punch through plate, not even those fired from Indian steel recurve bows (the most powerful bows in the world) at ideal range. An arrow can, however, completely regardless of its quality or the quality of the bow it's shot from, hit one of the less heavily protected areas: the groin, the joints, the armpits, the neck, etc. and thus "penetrate" plate armor without punching through the armor plate itself.

The hail of arrows released by a volley of trained archers was pretty much the Medieval equivalent of the anti-personnel machinegun.

Regarding mail, I suppose the arrowheads were larger relative to the links of mail than I thought... :smile:

Probably. The average link size was about 5mm (inside diameter), and the ends of the rings were not simply hammered shut like in most modern reproductions, but actually riveted together so the overall construction was a lot more durable than what you get these days."

 

 

I did read this quote just a few minutes ago that may testify against this fact

Found what I wrote at the time;

Military Historian Dr David Whetham of King’s College, University of London, Physicist Paul Burke of Cranfield University and Hillary Greenland, Secretary of the Society for the Promotion of Traditional Archery have recently carried out experiments at the MODs UK Defence Academy at Shrivenham, Oxfordshire into the effectiveness of the English War bow [a.k.a. Longbow].

They used bows with 110, 140, and 150 pounds draw weights and a range of different late medieval arrowheads. To make the tests as authentic as possible they examined the skeletal structure of the bodies of medieval bowmen excavated from the battle of Towton and from those drowned on the Mary Rose. They then searched for a modern individual whose bone/muscle structure most closely matched. They found one, Mark Stretton from Leicestershire who was a blacksmith and by pure chance, an avid archer since the age of six.

The full report will be published in 2007, but the initial published findings are quite interesting. Some of you will be aware of similar experiments carried out over the last 30 years, which have concluded that “Bodkin” arrowheads were not able to pierce plate armour, and so the hail of arrows was used more to break up enemy formations. Some of these “tests” have been televised, showing such arrowheads buckling or bouncing off late medieval plate armour.

It appears these tests were carried out using bows with only 50-70 pounds draw weight, and the wrong arrowheads were used for the armour being tested. The latest tests using correct period arrowheads have shown that the energy released at impact was 100-120 joules, the equivalent of being hit with a sledgehammer. Such arrows were found to be able to penetrate plate armour at ranges up to 200 meters, enough to kill, or seriously wound the wearer.

You can get a DVD of the tests here
http://www.sylvanarchery.co.uk/SUNDRIES/warbowdvd.html

and his quote , really powerful shots might be able to defeat poor plate armour at close enough range, but generally if a guy in plate were hurt by arrow it would be because the arrow found a hole in the armour (like visors).

http://cdn.historum.com/images/classic/statusicon/user_offline.gif

 

I understand this is just a game (lol). But, it seems that the archery equation should really take this into account more. It's almost like the npc or player should have hotspots on the body based upon the type of armor and what is worn. It's in these hotspots that damage can be done. Would add a new complexity to archery and make it a more specialized option.

Edited July 15, 2013 by todd92371

[Nudedragon]

I didn't get through your whole post, although I will later, I just wanted to pitch my 2 cents. This whole idea of arrows piercing armor, or not, could have fun implications for crossbows and SkyRe's heavy bow variation. If, instead of just ignoring part of the enemies armor, crossbows had a larger number of acceptable locations, that'd be really cool. SkyRe's long bows should have a larger number of acceptable locations, relative to short bows, within a certain distance.

[SeraphimKensai]

In Tamriel, Hircine had assumed the form of a wolf and saw a group of hunter's hunting an armor plated bear. He howled to the moon and thus the magical echo that reverberated throughout Nirn blessed each arrow and bolt to be able to pierce the strongest of armors.

 

In short, TES isn't Earth.

[Shadeybladey]

A lot of people don't realise that although the Welsh longbows at Crecy, Poitou and Agincourt had enormous penetrating power with their arrows as they trained all their lives by law, it was the clouds of thousands of the things slamming down into overcrowded French mob in the mud as they desperately tried to get out of the way of their own cavalry who were charging into the back of their own men in pursuit of personal glory. As they fell off their horses and lay in the mud, they were finished off by daggers and short swords through the chinks.

 

Those that did not suffocate, that is.

 

Of course, the horses were a little pissed-off being turned into pin cushions...

 

But here is a mod you might like:

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/29061

 

~.~

[Nudedragon]

In Tamriel, Hircine had assumed the form of a wolf and saw a group of hunter's hunting an armor plated bear. He howled to the moon and thus the magical echo that reverberated throughout Nirn blessed each arrow and bolt to be able to pierce the strongest of armors.

 

In short, TES isn't Earth.

 

If you use realistic ragdolls and force, you should be ashamed, sir.