War on terrorism but not all terrorism?

[Guest]

America should stop terrorism

Stop terrorising 3rd world countries

 

 

Michael more

[Malchik]

Russia is not the only one, I assure you.

 

But why do people keep referring to these atrocities as acts of war?

 

War is visible, there are armies, there are battles. What you have is a series of unconnected disaffected individuals who are willing, NOTE willing, to die for what they believe is the oppression of a 'foreign' government.

 

They are not interested in world sympathy. They want to be noticed. If a few is taking on the many, or the weak is taking on the powerful, they know they will lose but need to make a statement in the process.

 

If they kill soldiers all the rest of the world does is nod and say, that's a risk soldiers take. So in their view they must do something so apparently unspeakable (to us) the world cannot fail to take notice.

 

And they will go on doing so until either they get what they want or they run out of people to commit suicide.

 

In Chechnya, as far as I know the terrorism is local. In the case of Al Quaeda it is international. For all you know the guys living next door could be sympathisers or potetial sympathisers. They are invisible, not an army in any recognisable threat. They do not even have to belong to anything.

 

It is not a war and as such is unwinnable. Bush at least had the guts to admit this before the spin doctors made him retract his words. (I am no fan of the man but it is nice to hear he knows the truth in his head even if he has contributed to the higher risk in the world.)

 

But to get back on topic.

 

When and if there to be evidence that US money is funding the guerillas in Chechnya, then I would expect Bush to act but in the US only, freezing bank accounts, searching for those involved. Otherwise most major countries of the world do not trust each other well enough to want foreign troops on their soil unless under the aegis of the UN. Perhaps we will move in the direction of a supra-national anti-terrorist elite force in the future but we aren't there yet. It will take a few more atrocities to drive the old antagonists together.

 

Sadly I agree with earlier posters. Things will get a lot worse. Even more sadly I do not feel confident to add 'before they get better'.

[surian]

I'm not even going to add my opinion on this as far as Russia goes. I was seriously moved to tears from seeing those pictures of dozens of children dead from the seige. That's about all I can say about it. It is the same way I felt about the 9-11 attacks, the magnitude of this tragedy is overwhelming.

[postaldudeleo]

I would say that technically war is winnable............in theory.

 

take this quote ' A guy had a very nice house. But he had ants runnings inside it. He got angry and bought some c4. Then he planted 40 pounds of it and blew his house to hell. His house is completaly gone save for the burning hole in the ground.............but at least he got rid of the ants"

 

Anyhow, anything can be done in theory but in real life, much is unatainable unless we blow up the earth. its possible but we are definetly are not gonna do that ..........or are we? :help:

[Shakkara]

Chechenya deserves independance, end of story. These attacks are NOTHING compared what's been done to Chechenya. I read a story about a mother whose daughter blew herself up as suicide bomber. The reason was that she and her husband encountered a patrol of Russian soldiers, and they took her husband and shot him through his head before her eyes. Just for fun...

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20030219095532/...sa_intview.html

 

February 2000:

 

"Q: What toll has the fighting taken on your country?

 

A: Bechaev: Already we have approximately 20,000 civilians who have been killed, and more than 35,000 wounded. We have more than 250,000 refugees. And more than 124 villages have been wiped off the face of the Earth. The city of Grozny is nothing but ruins. And Russia is calling this a battle against terrorism. Not one terrorist has yet to be killed, and not one has been named by Russia. So whom is Russia having a war with? The Chechen people. Is it possible to call this anything but genocide?"

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20030219094132/...ticle/loot.html

 

"Clean-up number 20 lasted from January 28 to February 5. As in earlier operations, federal forces besieged the village, using heavy armour, aviation, artillery and a contingent of 5,000 troops. Inhabitants were forbidden not just to leave the village, but also to move from one street to another or from house to house.

 

The soldiers came to the house of two sisters, Markha and Taus Musayeva, on Nagornaya Street at about 9 am on the morning of January 29. They are a poor family, who live off food they grow themselves and the pension of their old and almost bed-ridden father.

 

Markha said the soldiers immediately began demanding cash, but there was none. "Then we will screw you in front of your mum and dad," said the soldiers. They surrounded Markha, pushing her from one to the other like a punching bag, pulling her by the arms and hair. Tearing herself away, she rushed to the man who seemed to be the most senior, perhaps even an officer, wearing a black mask. Two fine calm green eyes looked at her and the man said, "Give us 300 roubles [about 10 dollars] and we won't screw you."

 

Taus, Markha's sister, who was being held in another room, cried out, "I'll run to the neighbours and bring it!" But the same drama was being played out there. Soldiers had forced Milana Kutsayeva, a beautiful 18-year-old from Grozny, with a one-year-old son in her arms, into her house, while her husband and father-in-law were made to stand against the wall in the courtyard. Milana was given a simple choice: be raped by the soldiers or pay 500 roubles.

 

Over the past two years, the mass document-checking process in Chechnya has turned into mass looting, as the soldiers "clean up" whatever they like, especially cash and jewellery. This time, however, for the first time in this second Chechen war, the soldiers ravaged the village by extorting money - or indulging their own sexual pleasure.

 

The federal forces took 300 roubles from the poorer-looking houses and 500 from the richer ones. Women were spared rape if they handed over earrings and necklaces. The poorest in Stariye Atagi suffered worst of all, because they had nothing to give the Russians. Milana Kutsayeva was able to pay off the soldiers, but Markha and Taus weren't - and suffered the brutal consequences. "

 

More here, if you can stand it. http://web.archive.org/web/20030207124835/...na.com/article/