Dawnguard: Harkons Plan

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

I think Harkon's version of the plan was going to involve tainting the bow itself, not just topping a few arrowheads with blood.

 

If he'd done that them perhaps the effect would be different? Either longer lasting, or indeed - permanent. His other option would be to keep Serana and/or Valerica (if he got to her) alive, but subdued somehow - use them as a supply source for the blood he required to repurpose the arrows.

 

 

That would kind of be the assumption, but still, not very clear on that... I mean if you ask Valerica for arrows I think she says she wants nothing to do with Harkon's plan or something to that affect which implies that Harkon's plan was to do exactly what you are asking.

 

I don't know. Seems odd/off to me is all.

 

Story would have made more sense if you just couldn't block out the Sun as the player character in my opinion.

[Lachdonin]

I don't know. Seems odd/off to me is all.

 

 

I think one should automatically assume that all ancient evil megalomaniacs are totally off their gourd, suffering from serious tunnel vision and incapable of hashing out a fool-proof plan.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

 

I think one should automatically assume that all ancient evil megalomaniacs are totally off their gourd, suffering from serious tunnel vision and incapable of hashing out a fool-proof plan.

 

I meant from a story/4th wall perspective. Of course a person could be off, but whether Harkon is crazy or not doesn't have any impact on my point of the story seeming to be off given you need to stop Harkon because he will need to kill Serana in order to complete his plan... but... then... you end up doing his plan anyway and without needing to kill Serana. In fact it would seem you need her alive for the plan and she will make as many of these Sun blocking arrows as you want and do so willingly. Kind of makes that whole conflict a bit senseless/off.

[Lachdonin]

In that regard, i'm with the others in arguing that killing Serana is a whole different ballgame than what you do yourself. Whereas you dip a few arrows, Harkon likely had some elaborate ritual in mind which would permanently taint the bow, and using the perversion of Akatosh's power to fundamentally alter the barriers between Mundus and the greater universe.

 

You're simply given the option to do Diet Harkon's Plan, rather than the full meal-deal.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

Yeah... likely, but we don't know. That's us taking a plot hole and filling it with goo (logical goo, but still goo), but the reality is, we don't know. Like I said before, it is clearly not all that clear on what he was trying to do.

 

I mean, keep in mind after all, Valerica was just as paranoid as Harkon was... for all we know he was going to do exactly what we end up doing... not to mention, when you ask Valerica for Blood Dipped Arrows, she says something to the affect of not wanting anything to do with Harkon's plan.

 

Of course Harkon was willing to sacrifice Serana or Valerica for his plan if need be, but as things stand, it isn't really looking like he had to... just saying. (Not to mention there are probably other female worshipers of Molag Bal so why couldn't another daughter of coldharbour exist? (maybe I missed something))

[Lachdonin]

(Not to mention there are probably other female worshipers of Molag Bal so why couldn't another daughter of coldharbour exist? (maybe I missed something))

 

I generally agree with everything else, since we are in fact just filling holes in the plot ourselves, but this is something i feel i can address. The worship of Molag Bal isn't permitted anywhere i'm aware of (except maybe with the Sload...) so his followers are somewhat rare. Even then, very few of them go through the process of becoming pure-blood Vampires. Serana doesn't really talk specifics, but she says it's a thoroughly degrading, agonizing process where every shred of her will and humanity are stripped from her over months. I think it's safe to assume that Daughters of Cold Harbour are rather rare.

[TheVampireDante]

Perhaps why Harkon wanted both his daughter, and his wife within his reach (apart from the need for the scrolls they had). As both where daughters of Coldharbour, he could try one method - the outright kill and taint - with one of them, and if it didn't work as expected, he could use the other one for the secondary method - blood coated arrows - and see if that was workable. If so, then all he needed to do was secure the "source" some way so as they could never escape again and continue to bleed them for his plans.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

I generally agree with everything else, since we are in fact just filling holes in the plot ourselves, but this is something i feel i can address. The worship of Molag Bal isn't permitted anywhere i'm aware of (except maybe with the Sload...) so his followers are somewhat rare.

 

Rare... not nonexistent. Surely he could have found some other worshipers somewhere and convinced a woman or two to become daughters of Cold Harbour. Take into account he is immortal and he had forever to get this done. I believe in Harkon. Harkon 2013!

 

 

Perhaps why Harkon wanted both his daughter, and his wife within his reach (apart from the need for the scrolls they had). As both where daughters of Coldharbour, he could try one method - the outright kill and taint - with one of them, and if it didn't work as expected, he could use the other one for the secondary method - blood coated arrows - and see if that was workable. If so, then all he needed to do was secure the "source" some way so as they could never escape again and continue to bleed them for his plans.

 

That's pretty sound, but it just seems a bit crazy that Serana is willing to do this when we went through so much trouble preventing it... Valerica on the other hand made complete sense. She was like, "You want me to what? Nah. I don't think so."

[Lachdonin]

Rare... not nonexistent. Surely he could have found some other worshipers somewhere and convinced a woman or two to become daughters of Cold Harbour. Take into account he is immortal and he had forever to get this done. I believe in Harkon. Harkon 2013!

 

There is of course also the little fact that the Clans don't really get along... He couldn't have recruited another Daughter of Cold Harbour from another clan without, in all likelyhood, open war with another clan. Recruiting another mortal and turning her INTO a Daughter of Cold Harbour would also require him sharing the secret of his power with an outsider. Yes, i know he does that rather freely with the Dovahkiin, but things tend to get a little stretched for the PCs.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

 

There is of course also the little fact that the Clans don't really get along... He couldn't have recruited another Daughter of Cold Harbour from another clan without, in all likelyhood, open war with another clan. Recruiting another mortal and turning her INTO a Daughter of Cold Harbour would also require him sharing the secret of his power with an outsider. Yes, i know he does that rather freely with the Dovahkiin, but things tend to get a little stretched for the PCs.

 

 

Good points my friend. Very good points.