_it_ Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 i dont believe in any religion in dont belief in the darwin theory becuase they all make 1 mistake they dont really explain our origin a man cant come from a rock and god had to come from somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiade Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I have been thinking a lot recently, and it's possible that maybe Christians have been given the wrong image of God (if there is one). I'm not dissing Christians or anything, this is just a thought that's been occuring to me. I think if God existed, I don't think he would be a single person or entity. God is commonly associated almost as a person, who lives in heaven. I think God would have to be more of an essence, something that is intertwined with all facets of the universe, not just obsessed with earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_it_ Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I have been thinking a lot recently, and it's possible that maybe Christians have been given the wrong image of God (if there is one). I'm not dissing Christians or anything, this is just a thought that's been occuring to me. I think if God existed, I don't think he would be a single person or entity. God is commonly associated almost as a person, who lives in heaven. I think God would have to be more of an essence, something that is intertwined with all facets of the universe, not just obsessed with earth. iam not trying to make your comment sound childish but do you mean something like gaia from final fantasy the spirits with in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dienekes Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 1) Faith can be an argument. It's true that saying "something's true because I believe it is" doesn't get a debate anywhere. But if you point out faith as a phenomenon your argument has to be taken serious. There's a whole lot of people in the world who believe in some kind of God and you will have to aknowledge that. 2) Inspite of this, I wholeheartedly disagree with Dinins line of reasoning: God created the world and every being in it and he is not finished with us until every single one finds his or her proper place (and hell or anything just slightly similar to it is not an option). 3) God does not demand anything of us: Christian (I'm writing from a Christian perspective, let other religions speak for themselves, all the best to you) ethics is just a recomendation and if you think about it, you will see the reason of people not killing each other... (I'm not gonna get into the sexual aspects of the topic as this leads nowhere, let it be enough if I say that I take a fairly liberal point of few and feel I'm completely in accordance to the example of Jesus of Nazareth)4) It is the same with worship: God hopes we will take notice of him, but He does not judge us by that. A person with some kind of religios belief or a relationship to God is in no way ahead of anyone else. It is just a different way of life. (I'm Christian, in case you were wondering and please don't tell me I need to do more research) 5) To Eiade: Every image of God is gonna be wrong: the human mind just can't take the whole thing. But the image of the kind old man above the clouds is surely more wrong than most others around. I'd agree that He is found in every aspect of creation, but still He is more than just a power or a force, He has a personal aspect to Hm that allows us call to Him and also expect answer, but that is something for personl experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_it_ Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 i really disagrea on point 1 faith is a overstrechted word a phenomenon isnt really a good argumanet because it doesnt states a good hard fact because it is debate able because you cant really prove beyond reasonable doubt that it happened 3) God does not demand anything of us: Christian (I'm writing from a Christian perspective, let other religions speak for themselves, all the best to you) ethics is just a recomendation and if you think about it, you will see the reason of people not killing each other... (I'm not gonna get into the sexual aspects of the topic as this leads nowhere, let it be enough if I say that I take a fairly liberal point of few and feel I'm completely in accordance to the example of Jesus of Nazareth) god does demand stuff from us like behaving good and to spread the bible all over the globe and to help eachother dispite of race/ideas/likes/dislikes etc...... and you say that we cant know what GOD is but why do you call GOD him ? you dont even know if he is infact a organism that lives by our rules and as i sad we dont know sh*t about god we dont even have proof that he/she/it exists and faith is snt gonna proof anything just because a 5 year old beliefs in santa doesnt mean he exists and like i sad if god exists why does he give jesus the power to whipe us all of the face of the earth by opening the 7 seals of the apocalypse if you are christian you should take notice of this because it is written in the original (translated by a hebrew if iam not mistaking) that jesus WILL unleash the apocalyps by breaking the seals wich lay on the throne of god and another odd thing is that *might be offensive* jesus is infact lucifer if you translate the words correctly lucifer means something like lightbringer and jesus was reffered to as lucifer in the greek version of the bible (about 100 ad) and if god doesnt demands a thing why is there a reward when people behave ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Thief Oriana Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 So I lie an awful lot. The truth is you can’t handle the truth. Don’t feel bad. I couldn’t handle it either. The thing is: existence is far simpler than you’ll be able to understand for a long while. You’ve got to get through a lot of complication to realize how vulking simple it really is. But that’s what you’re here for: to go through all the stuff, all the complications, the Journey, the Way, the great big Everything. Don’t worry though, you already know everything about Everything, you just have to figure out what you know. I’ll give you a boost though, a little hand up. Take this book: Most everything in it is a pack of lies, but there’s truth there, in fact, “there is truth in every lie,” I think someone once said, “you just have to find it.” Now put this in terms of reality. Reality is a lie, a great big falsification, and illusion if you want, and the lie will be around as long as you would like it to be there, as long as it takes for you to figure the Truth. Then you’ll really start going places. I’ll give you another hint: I am indeed God. I could not be otherwise for Thou Art God. Blessed Be. Goodbye, and Hello, as Always. Personally, I think this, and the whole series on there "Memoirs of a Contumacious Deity", pretty much sums up the whole god issue, and the whole faith issue. Its mostly a mad rambling that we cannot comprehend because we prefer not to be in charge of our own destiny and believe in the power of the self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinin Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 and like i sad if god exists why does he give jesus the power to whipe us all of the face of the earth by opening the 7 seals of the apocalypse if you are christian you should take notice of this because it is written in the original (translated by a hebrew if iam not mistaking) that jesus WILL unleash the apocalyps by breaking the seals wich lay on the throne of god God is Jesus, or vice-versa. To put it in a simple point of view: Jesus is what God would be, if God was human. So when Jesus is about to bring the apocolypse upon us, that is God working through Jesus. It's actually a complicated subject, the whole Jesus/God thing. (basically everything in the Bible is complicated). But Christians are taught at a young age that Jesus is God in some way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmid Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 It's actually a complicated subject, the whole Jesus/God thing. (basically everything in the Bible is complicated). But Christians are taught at a young age that Jesus is God in some way or another. As an ex-Christian (I now have a completely open mind on religious matters), I was taught that Jesus was a part of God that was separated and made human - the son of God, but of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Thief Oriana Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 It's actually a complicated subject, the whole Jesus/God thing. (basically everything in the Bible is complicated). But Christians are taught at a young age that Jesus is God in some way or another.As an ex-Christian (I now have a completely open mind on religious matters), I was taught that Jesus was a part of God that was separated and made human - the son of God, but of God. The whole God/Jesus thing is a triviality made to separate different denominations and further bolster theopolitical strife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dienekes Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Answering _it_:The fact that someone believes a certain thing does not make it true, you're right to insist on that. But the fact that this belief has an influence on the life of that person, that this belief may be a comfort in times of need, that it may be a source of direction in times of doubt, is a fact that you will have to deal with. There are commandments in the bible, but the bible was written by human beings with a religios backround. I'd say they had some experience with God, you might say they were just stating their own thought. Others read this, thought it to be good and passed it on. We find a text about which many people in different times tell us that something about God can be learned from it. So you might say the commandments state what God demands of us. But still I believe, this is not not the kind of order a master gives to his slave, but rather like something a father or mother tells to his or her child. If your parents told you as a child not to play on the interstate highway (sort of exagerated example, but you'll get the point) this might have seemed to spoil your fun but today you see the reason of it. You follow Gods commandments because they serve your own best intrest not because of fear of some eternal judgement (which I doubt will come). You love or don't love God for His/Her own sake, not because you fear the consequences if you don't. I call God 'He' because I'm to lazy to write He/She/It all the time, and because I have the image of God as father in mind, which I found works pretty fine, but this does not say that other images do not describe God as well. To talk of God as father was actually started by Jesus of Nazareth himself, so it will be fine for me, too.I'm very certain that He is not an organism that lives by our rules. And yes, I don't have any proof He does exist, but you don't have proof He does not exist, so I can just continue to live as though He did. As to the apocalypse: The book of Revelation of John was actually written in Old Greek. If you look at its origion and the circumstances of its coming into the bible you will be less hasty to take it literally. And as to the lucifer issue: Can you give me the specific verses in the bible so I can look it up in the Greek New Testament? P.S.: To Breton Thief OrianaThe whole God/Jesus thing is a triviality made to separate different denominations and further bolster theopolitical strife. If this is how you see it, why bother posting into a debate of people who wish to talk seriously about it? :veryangry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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