Doom death and destruction in the US

[surian]

60% of Americans know that statistics can prove anything

 

LMAO! That's great!

[Peregrine]

1) The expired ban will mean many more assault weapons will be distributed by legal weapon manufacturing facilities.

 

No, it means that newly manufactured weapons can now have the "evil" features that were banned. AK-47s will be distributed just like under the ban, except now they can keep their bayonet mounts.

 

2) These weapons will be, in the end, recieved by citizens, both those authorized to own these weapons and -- through illegal distribution and theft -- those unauthorized to have these weapons at their disposal.

 

This is a change? Criminals have always been able to get weapons. But the evidince is overwhelming: "assault weapons" are NOT the weapon of choice of criminals. The small minority of criminals who do use them are not going to be affected by the removal of the ban.

 

) Because the number of high-damage assault weapons in the possession of citizens will increase because of the ban expiration, and thus the ratio of high-damage weapons to other weapons will rise, the amount of damage that privately owned weapons will do, on average, will increase. Similarly, the amount of time it takes to damage a target will, on average, decrease.

 

High damage? Thank you for proving my point about people being ignorant of the facts. Muzzle energy of 3 relevant calibers:

 

5.5mm6 NATO (m16): 1798J

7.62x39mm (AK-47): 1991J

.30-06 (bolt action hunting rifle): 3793J

 

Yes, that's right. The "evil assault weapons" have half the power of an average hunting rifle. What were you saying about "more damage"?

 

4) A percentage of people will use weapons in their possession against other people -- because of what is presented in item 3, these people will be able to do, on average, more damage with the weapons they have avaliable to them, and will be able to do damage to more targets.

 

What is so hard to understand about this? The banned weapons were all available under the ban, whether at slightly higher prices for pre-94 ones, or missing their evil features.

 

I'd really like to see your logic for how allowing criminals to have grenade launchers (grenades are extremely regulated and nearly impossible to get) or bayonets on their weapons will increase the amount of damage done.

 

5) Because more damage can be done in violent acts involving guns, a higher ratio of deaths to injuries that result from these acts will be achieved, and because more targets can be reached, a higher number of casualties resulting from gun violence will be achieved.

 

See point 4) above. You can't do more damage. And in any case, random mass murder is a tiny minority of crimes. These crimes happen, but they are extremely rare. And for the occasional murderer with that intent, the weapons are still out there. If you're that determined to kill people, what difference does $500 in the price make?

 

...So there you go. You're supporting something that will, in a decade, be directly responsible for hundreds of deaths and thousands of crippling injuries.

 

Meanwhile other weapons will be responsible for thousands of deaths. In New York (state) in 1992 alone, there were 2,394 murders, a whole 20 of which were done with assault weapons. Now what does that say?

 

If we assume those numbers stay relatively constant, in that same decade, 20,000 people will be murdered by non-assault weapons. In New York alone.

 

Concession accepted.

 

===================================================

 

imagine you can buy a m4 assault rifle i mean thats us special forces if you have one of these you can take out a whole police division (providing u can master it and that u have many many bullets) i think bush is making a gigantic mistake

 

Ugh, thank you for proving my point about the general ignorance about the ban.

 

The m4 used by the US military is a fully automatic weapon. It has been either heavily restricted or banned since 1934.

 

 

===================================================

 

AND FOR ALL OF YOU WHO SUPPORT THE BAN, ANSWER THE PICTURE QUESTION. OR CONCEDE THAT YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE FACTS OF THE BAN.

[UberBender]

Surian is right.

 

Now that I've said that I think I'll go buy lots of "assualt weapons."

[_it_]

Surian is right.

 

Now that I've said that I think I'll go buy lots of "assualt weapons."

lol dont forget to send one for me via fedex

 

 

i already sa a on-line store that sold a aks 74u for 659$ us and you even get a free mag its sick

[Peregrine]

i already sa a on-line store that sold a aks 74u for 659$ us and you even get a free mag its sick

I know, that is just disgusting. An AK for $650? That's insane! $300 at most would be a fair price for that gun. Anything more for an AK is a ripoff.

[_it_]

i already sa a on-line store that sold a aks 74u for 659$ us and you even get a free mag its sick

I know, that is just disgusting. An AK for $650? That's insane! $300 at most would be a fair price for that gun. Anything more for an AK is a ripoff.

its the special forces version used by spetznatz

[Peregrine]

i already sa a on-line store that sold a aks 74u for 659$ us and you even get a free mag its sick

I know, that is just disgusting. An AK for $650? That's insane! $300 at most would be a fair price for that gun. Anything more for an AK is a ripoff.

its the special forces version used by spetznatz

No it isn't. Russian special forces would use a fully automatic weapon, which is illegal or restricted in the US (I assume you mean in the US, since this debate is about a US law). Since it is the 1974 version, it is possible that there are some legally imported full auto ones available to buy, but like all automatic weapons, they would have a price tag of several thousand dollars at minimum.

 

What you saw advertised was a semi-auto copy of the military version. And for that, $650 is an absoute ripoff.

[_it_]

its a full auto aks 74u designed for special purposes similar to the m4 sopmod its a full auto (the cap has been removed) you can buy a ammo drum wich holds 60 to 75 rounds you can fit a flash point a bajonet a scope a explosive shell launcher (these ones arent for sale)

 

they also sell some us army sniper systems

[Peregrine]

Please, give me a link to this site. Either you're wrong about what they're selling, or they're breaking multiple weapons laws. And doing so in about the least intelligent way they possibly could.

 

they also sell some us army sniper systems

 

So? Those "us army sniper systems" are just accurate bolt action rifles. Nothing at all unusual. The "us army sniper system" label is pure advertising. A true statement, but one that means absolutely nothing.

[_it_]

i searched google i typed gun retailers or fire arm retailers

 

i will check my cookies and give u the link over pm when i have it