tyjet3 Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 There seem to be to many people that think this years election is going to be close... I'm telling you, it won't be. -No president that has lied to the public was re-elected-No president that has started a war has EVER been re-elected-No president that has cause a large deficiet has been re-elected These are just a few reasons... I know too many republicans that have turned because of Bush... People need to stop worrying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiade Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Well, we have to keep in mind who is the alternative to Bush. There are more ignorant people about politics than there are informed people nowadays. It is the ignorant faction that we must worry about. Believe it or not, Bush has been making some good points and promises about what he will do if he is re-elected. And there are still the people who supported him in everything that he did. Personally, I can't say if it will be close or if it will be a hands-down win. I'm just saying that we can't be sure of either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 -No president that has lied to the public was re-elected All politicians lie to the public. The only question is to what degree. -No president that has started a war has EVER been re-elected Let's see, wars and presidents for the past 100 years.... WWI: Wilson declares war, after having been reelected once already. His health fails before his second term is over, and dies only a year after he leaves office. WWII: Roosevelt declares war, and dies before the war ends. Korean War: Started under Truman, who declined to attempt re-election a second time. Vietnam War: American involvement started under Johnson, who declined re-election to focus on peace without politics getting in the way. Iraq, Part I: Started by Iraq. Ended by Bush I, who won significant popularity for it and lost to economic reasons. So let's see.... two who aren't elected for health/death reasons, two who decide not to attempt re-election, and one who loses for reasons completely unrelated to the war he "started". Yeah, getting into a war is really harmful for a president.... -No president that has cause a large deficiet has been re-elected This guy named Reagan would like to disagree with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOfTheRood Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 There seem to be to many people that think this years election is going to be close... I'm telling you, it won't be. -No president that has lied to the public was re-elected-No president that has started a war has EVER been re-elected-No president that has cause a large deficiet has been re-elected These are just a few reasons... I know too many republicans that have turned because of Bush... People need to stop worrying... Presidents who have lied to the public and been re-elected: Clinton. FDR. Ulysses S. Grant. Adding to Peregrine's list of Presidents who have started wars and been re-elected:Abraham Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyjet3 Posted September 19, 2004 Author Share Posted September 19, 2004 All politicians lie to the public. The only question is to what degree.Yes, all politicions lie, but not like bush. he did it at a pretty damn high degree. Let's see, wars and presidents for the past 100 years.... WWI: Wilson declares war, after having been reelected once already. His health fails before his second term is over, and dies only a year after he leaves office. WWII: Roosevelt declares war, and dies before the war ends. Korean War: Started under Truman, who declined to attempt re-election a second time. Vietnam War: American involvement started under Johnson, who declined re-election to focus on peace without politics getting in the way. Iraq, Part I: Started by Iraq. Ended by Bush I, who won significant popularity for it and lost to economic reasons. obviously, if a president has started a war in his second term he can't be re-elected still... duh. But no president that has started a war in his first term was elected again... your evidence doesn't prove that wrong. what i said is still true. This guy named Reagan would like to disagree with you...Reagen did more damage his second term, not his first. Personally, I can't say if it will be close or if it will be a hands-down win. I'm just saying that we can't be sure of either way.I'm not saying it will be a landslide, but it won't be as close as bush vs gore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Yes, all politicions lie, but not like bush. he did it at a pretty damn high degree. I'm not saying Bush is honest. I know he lied, but lying to the public is not a fatal offense for a politician. Especially when he's so effectively making his opponent into a liar on the vietnam issue. obviously, if a president has started a war in his second term he can't be re-elected still... duh Wrong. Of the listed presidents, only Johnson and Bush were affected by the term limits ammendment. All the others could have attempted reelection, if they had survived to do so. But no president that has started a war in his first term was elected again... your evidence doesn't prove that wrong. what i said is still true. I admit that it's true. But it's a meaningless statement. Of the five presidents who have started wars in the past 100 years, only one of them even tried to get re-elected. And Bush I failed not because of the war (which earned him massive popularity), but because of economic issues. Again, let's look at why those war-starters failed to be re-elected. Two were physically unable to be re-elected. No matter what your popularity is, it's hard to be re-elected if you're dead or nearly dead. Two voluntarily declined re-election because they didn't want to have a second term. They didn't fail to be re-elected because they were never in the election to begin with. ONE actually lost his re-election attempt, and for completely different reasons. If the war had been the deciding issue in that election, Bush would have WON. Reagen did more damage his second term, not his first. Your point? He did damage in his first term, then was re-elected. He did more damage in his second term, and then his vice-president was elected. Regardless of how bad Reagan's economic policy was, it didn't cost him anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Adding to Peregrine's list of Presidents who have started wars and been re-elected:Abraham Lincoln Thank you. I was ignoring the pre-1900 presidents as American society has changed so much since then that they wouldn't be too relevant to the current election. But it's a nice fatal flaw in the initial argument: Lincoln started a war in his first term and was re-elected. CONCESSION ACCEPTED, TYJET3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyjet3 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 Thank you. I was ignoring the pre-1900 presidents as American society has changed so much since then that they wouldn't be too relevant to the current election. exactly, that's why that one doesn't really count. Our society is very different now. and it was the civil war... very different from a war over seas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surian Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 um... roosevelt WAS re-elected even AFTER he he declared war on Japan (and concequently Germany. In fact, he was elected several times. He is the reason that we now have a cap on the number of consequitive terms a president can be in office. In fact, being in the middle of a war is usually a benifit to the candidate rather than a hinderance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyjet3 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 I think that is a different thing... Japan declared war on the US, then the US went to war. Roosevelt didn't declare a war. He doesn't really count... the original statement was:No president that has started a war has EVER been re-electedRoosevelt didn't start the war, Japan did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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