Sex, butts, breasts and YOUR BRAIN!

[Skree000]

Hey guys, i figured id post it here since i would love to have more opinions on the argument some of us have been having in our little Fallout3 modification niche.

 

I linked a few images of a curvaceous female game character I was working on, which was followed by several comments by people who may have liked it, and were referring to the sexual nature of beautified game characters.

 

This was immediately followed by people who gave the other side of the argument, their stance that Video Game characters (in this case females) 'did nothing for them', and instead they prefer photos of real women. This is an opinion and I respect it.

 

Nobody is right or wrong, but we can discuss either side of the argument.

 

Debate starts here: http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=874547

then proceeds to the next page. (if you want to follow it point by point) (its only a few posts long)

The latest rebuttal I posted is pretty long winded, but it gets into some deep stuff.

 

Now the basics of the debate are mentioned above, but let me say, i have met many, many people in life who agree with eachother that video game women dont have any effect on them.

Now, its my attempt to disprove this and instead claim that they are denying it.

 

What do you all think on this issue?

heres my main point on my stance: http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=893685

 

am I a freak? o.o

 

 

Please read the thread from the link (the specific post that started it) and share your thoughts/opinions.

 

Im NOT trying to gang-up on anyone here, because i guarantee there are many people on both sides of the debate. Some who do enjoy looking at video game butts (both male and female) and those who claim it has no effect on them.

 

What im waiting for is someone with an in depth rebuttal against me that offers evidence from that side of the camp, so that I can see and understand their position on the issue.

 

PS. please post here on this topic, trying to re-rail that thread back onto its original topic, halo mods :)

[Skotte]

Skree, from what you linked I wouldn't say you're a "freak"

 

For me, my character onscreen isn't "me" this goes for any game.

 

I'm a guy, I don't feel trapped by my maleness & I mostly use fem characters.

So am I a freak?

[Michlo]

I'll just throw in that I haven't minded seeing some of the sexier looking fellers in both Oblivion and now Fallout 3. *shrug* I'm not about to be aroused by them but eye candy is eye candy as far as I can see and we males are very visually oriented.

[Vagrant0]

Although I am not an expert on the issue, but feel that I have a fair understanding of how these things develop between observations in real life, the experiences people have shared online, and a number of written works on the subject. The brain can perceive almost anything to be pleasurable. As children, we take pleasure as it is, without any specific sexual connotations. When we get older, and are introduced to the concept of sex, be begin attributing those pleasurable sights, smells, feelings, tastes, and sounds with sex. This is not nearly as cut and clear as Freud's work on the subject regarding human sexuality, which everyone is likely already familiar with, but follows the same sort of concept. For most of us, we identify what is and is not related to sex by what we see portrayed in the media, our own experiences, and what is acceptable by those around us. Essentially, if your 8 closest friends are turned on by animals, although you may not have previously given it much interest, you may be more likely to perceive animals in that manner, or atleast be more open to ideas about bestiality because you aren't likely to just ditch that group of friends. This is an extreme example, but describes one of the concepts involved with linking the two together. This is true with human traits as well, like large breasts, tight butts, muscular builds, squared jawlines, pouty lips, higher voices, small ears/feet, long legs, amount of body/facial hair, and many more. The more open we get to these concepts, the more likely we are to adopt them into our own list of what's "normal". There are certainly other ways of adopting fixations and fetishes, but that is a bit more complicated. Although there may be other aspects involved with homosexuality, bisexuality, pan-sexuality, asexuality, and those biological aspects which might or might not be related to those things, from a cultural perspective this process of acculturation is still present to some degree.

 

In relation to your question, one first needs to understand what constitutes as pornography. Pornography, in its most basic terms is any visual representation of something which can create a pleasurable experience, but not necessarily sexual pleasure. In this light, similar to the previous concept, almost anything which might invoke a pleasurable experience can be considered porn. Anything which the culture around you identifies as porn, you are likely to identify as porn, and as a result of that identification characterize those aspects portrayed within that media as pleasurable.

 

Essentially, if you enter into looking at naked 2d or CG characters as being pornography, likely because photographs, and other living representations are not available, you will probably get pleasure from looking at them. If you enter into looking at mostly representations of live persons, and don't have much exposure to 2d or CG characters, you are more likely to get pleasure just from the live pictures, despite any visual similarities that are being portrayed. The more you look at one kind of porn, the more likely you will adopt that kind of porn the standard by which all other porn is measured. If most of the people you associate yourself with consider one form of porn to be pleasurable, you are more likely to begin seeing that form of porn as pleasurable yourself.

 

In short, everything is porn. Being a freak deals more with severity, amount of harm done to others or yourself, and impact on outside life than any particular interests. Your friends may not get anything from it because they either don't want to admit it (since looking at porn tends to be a private affair for most), or are more familiar with conventional forms of porn. What one identifies as sexy is their own personal choice and business, as long as it does not interfere with, or force anything upon others, it's up to them to figure it out.

 

Personally, I see the plethora of sexy woman screenshots being uploaded as tasteless, stupid, and a bane of this community. I see the abundance of sexy body mods to be a disease which prevents modders from being taken seriously, or even in a positive light by some companies. That said, I often play using female characters (in MMO's mostly), have used some of the more conservative body mods that contain nudity, and usually make some attempt to make those female characters visually appealing in some way simply because I will likely be staring at their ass for large spans of time while playing that character. This does not mean that it was done with any intention to fap to the game, beautiful (acceptable) does not, and should not always imply any sexual interest. This is not to say that I probably couldn't view the game in that way, only that there are certainly other forms of media which I am more familiar with, which are easier to obtain.

 

At some point you really have to accept that in varying degrees, humanity is a disgusting, perverted, lustful, and pathetic species when it comes to sexuality (although that is also technically true for almost every other species we know of). "Normal" is only defined by what certain parts of established society are willing to admit publicly, and that most laws related to sex are less interested with the specifics of what is being rubbed, inserted, or fondled, and more with any harm to others or society those things might cause. In the grand scope of things people do to get off, looking at naked female videogame characters is quite a bit closer to that definition of "normal" than a great many other things. If this is as weird as you ever get exposed to as far as what some consider sexual, be extremely thankful.

[Kresselack]

Personally I cannot oogle at game characters. The animator and artist somehow comes to my mind. "Ooooh that character looks sexy!" Then, an image of some very slender male with a large nose and thick-rimmed glasses intrudes the happiness in my mind causing the "good feelings" to go away leaving a shiver of disgust.

 

Take nude mods for Oblivion as an example. I see a character with "a perfect pair," then suddenly, an image of a male modder at his study desk decides to creep into my imagination. Besides the visual intrusions, I just see pixels and an animator who really needs to be more original. Sex and Mideval Fantasy do not mix. Think of your favourite salty meal with ice cream slopped on top. They are both nice but are not meant to be eaten simultaneously.

 

HOWEVER

 

If the artist/creator was a female I would feel less disturbed... It's a "guy thing" I dont mean to sound like a scumbag. I prefer real people, because humans have emotions, a soul(maybe), and of course, they are physically existing.

[Vagrant0]

Personally I cannot oogle at game characters. The animator and artist somehow comes to my mind. "Ooooh that character looks sexy!" Then, an image of some very slender male with a large nose and thick-rimmed glasses intrudes the happiness in my mind causing the "good feelings" to go away leaving a shiver of disgust.

 

Take nude mods for Oblivion as an example. I see a character with "a perfect pair," then suddenly, an image of a male modder at his study desk decides to creep into my imagination. Besides the visual intrusions, I just see pixels and an animator who really needs to be more original. Sex and Mideval Fantasy do not mix. Think of your favourite salty meal with ice cream slopped on top. They are both nice but are not meant to be eaten simultaneously.

 

HOWEVER

 

If the artist/creator was a female I would feel less disturbed... It's a "guy thing" I dont mean to sound like a scumbag. I prefer real people, because humans have emotions, a soul(maybe), and of course, they are physically existing.

 

Erm, you do realize that there ARE female modders out there who still make some of these things right? You do realize that you just characterized most male modders as being some ugly, hopeless loser with a visual problem right? Please do not adopt the stereotype as being who is really making these things. The typical geek stereotype hasn't been particularly valid for atleast the last 10 years, and you are more likely to find those kinds of people sitting around playing WoW and trying to let out their own repressed anger and feelings of inadequacy, or boosting their own egos, than spending time working on content which would be a benefit to others. Granted, this is also a typification, but most of the modders I've seen around here tend to lean more toward the "average" person within their age group. They have friends, they have social lives outside of the online world, they may even *gasp* have relationships with real, live, persons of the other gender within real, live environments. Just because someone makes a nude mod does not mean that they are just some hopeless loser with too much time on their hands... They could simply just be interested in making their game look better to themselves, and considerate enough to release it to others.

[Skree000]

Some interesting points raised.

 

In regards to females in the industry, they are seldom, but not non-existant. At our studio there are about 16 women working in a game studio of nearly 90. I think thats pretty good.

One is even an IT professional, that is extremely rare! I think its awesome.

 

The game X-blades by Gaijin entertainment, hailing from russia, has a mostly male production staff, however a few females are among them. Surprisingly, the premise of X-blades is a lara-croft type clone wearing a thong and doing acrobatics that show off her assets.

 

The new (soon to be released) game 'Wet' by A2M in canada also features a buxom babe heroine bounty hunter, and that company hosts numerous females in various levels of the company.

 

Heck, even my gf complains that games dont have enough sex, nudity, T&A and perversion.... they have people killing eachother, how is sex considered wrong in comparison? :)

[Skree000]

Although I am not an expert on the issue, but feel that I have a fair understanding of how these things develop between observations in real life, the experiences people have shared online, and a number of written works on the subject. The brain can perceive almost anything to be pleasurable. As children, we take pleasure as it is, without any specific sexual connotations. When we get older, and are introduced to the concept of sex, be begin attributing those pleasurable sights, smells, feelings, tastes, and sounds with sex. This is not nearly as cut and clear as Freud's work on the subject regarding human sexuality, which everyone is likely already familiar with, but follows the same sort of concept. For most of us, we identify what is and is not related to sex by what we see portrayed in the media, our own experiences, and what is acceptable by those around us. Essentially, if your 8 closest friends are turned on by animals, although you may not have previously given it much interest, you may be more likely to perceive animals in that manner, or atleast be more open to ideas about bestiality because you aren't likely to just ditch that group of friends. This is an extreme example, but describes one of the concepts involved with linking the two together. This is true with human traits as well, like large breasts, tight butts, muscular builds, squared jawlines, pouty lips, higher voices, small ears/feet, long legs, amount of body/facial hair, and many more. The more open we get to these concepts, the more likely we are to adopt them into our own list of what's "normal". There are certainly other ways of adopting fixations and fetishes, but that is a bit more complicated. Although there may be other aspects involved with homosexuality, bisexuality, pan-sexuality, asexuality, and those biological aspects which might or might not be related to those things, from a cultural perspective this process of acculturation is still present to some degree.

 

In relation to your question, one first needs to understand what constitutes as pornography. Pornography, in its most basic terms is any visual representation of something which can create a pleasurable experience, but not necessarily sexual pleasure. In this light, similar to the previous concept, almost anything which might invoke a pleasurable experience can be considered porn. Anything which the culture around you identifies as porn, you are likely to identify as porn, and as a result of that identification characterize those aspects portrayed within that media as pleasurable.

 

Essentially, if you enter into looking at naked 2d or CG characters as being pornography, likely because photographs, and other living representations are not available, you will probably get pleasure from looking at them. If you enter into looking at mostly representations of live persons, and don't have much exposure to 2d or CG characters, you are more likely to get pleasure just from the live pictures, despite any visual similarities that are being portrayed. The more you look at one kind of porn, the more likely you will adopt that kind of porn the standard by which all other porn is measured. If most of the people you associate yourself with consider one form of porn to be pleasurable, you are more likely to begin seeing that form of porn as pleasurable yourself.

 

In short, everything is porn. Being a freak deals more with severity, amount of harm done to others or yourself, and impact on outside life than any particular interests. Your friends may not get anything from it because they either don't want to admit it (since looking at porn tends to be a private affair for most), or are more familiar with conventional forms of porn. What one identifies as sexy is their own personal choice and business, as long as it does not interfere with, or force anything upon others, it's up to them to figure it out.

 

Personally, I see the plethora of sexy woman screenshots being uploaded as tasteless, stupid, and a bane of this community. I see the abundance of sexy body mods to be a disease which prevents modders from being taken seriously, or even in a positive light by some companies. That said, I often play using female characters (in MMO's mostly), have used some of the more conservative body mods that contain nudity, and usually make some attempt to make those female characters visually appealing in some way simply because I will likely be staring at their ass for large spans of time while playing that character. This does not mean that it was done with any intention to fap to the game, beautiful (acceptable) does not, and should not always imply any sexual interest. This is not to say that I probably couldn't view the game in that way, only that there are certainly other forms of media which I am more familiar with, which are easier to obtain.

 

At some point you really have to accept that in varying degrees, humanity is a disgusting, perverted, lustful, and pathetic species when it comes to sexuality (although that is also technically true for almost every other species we know of). "Normal" is only defined by what certain parts of established society are willing to admit publicly, and that most laws related to sex are less interested with the specifics of what is being rubbed, inserted, or fondled, and more with any harm to others or society those things might cause. In the grand scope of things people do to get off, looking at naked female videogame characters is quite a bit closer to that definition of "normal" than a great many other things. If this is as weird as you ever get exposed to as far as what some consider sexual, be extremely thankful.

 

Well written. You make me feel like a closed-minded jerk now for some of the things i said in my posts...

 

Which is great, I love finding information that challenges my thinking and makes me rethink my stances on issues.

(and makes me feel awful though, but thats my fault for being so resolute on an issue that ive fully convinced myself I was right)

 

Now Im seeing more of the bigger picture, I had not though of what is considered pornography! Thankyou for raising that point!

[Kresselack]

Personally I cannot oogle at game characters. The animator and artist somehow comes to my mind. "Ooooh that character looks sexy!" Then, an image of some very slender male with a large nose and thick-rimmed glasses intrudes the happiness in my mind causing the "good feelings" to go away leaving a shiver of disgust.

 

Take nude mods for Oblivion as an example. I see a character with "a perfect pair," then suddenly, an image of a male modder at his study desk decides to creep into my imagination. Besides the visual intrusions, I just see pixels and an animator who really needs to be more original. Sex and Mideval Fantasy do not mix. Think of your favourite salty meal with ice cream slopped on top. They are both nice but are not meant to be eaten simultaneously.

 

HOWEVER

 

If the artist/creator was a female I would feel less disturbed... It's a "guy thing" I dont mean to sound like a scumbag. I prefer real people, because humans have emotions, a soul(maybe), and of course, they are physically existing.

 

Erm, you do realize that there ARE female modders out there who still make some of these things right? You do realize that you just characterized most male modders as being some ugly, hopeless loser with a visual problem right? Please do not adopt the stereotype as being who is really making these things. The typical geek stereotype hasn't been particularly valid for atleast the last 10 years, and you are more likely to find those kinds of people sitting around playing WoW and trying to let out their own repressed anger and feelings of inadequacy, or boosting their own egos, than spending time working on content which would be a benefit to others. Granted, this is also a typification, but most of the modders I've seen around here tend to lean more toward the "average" person within their age group. They have friends, they have social lives outside of the online world, they may even *gasp* have relationships with real, live, persons of the other gender within real, live environments. Just because someone makes a nude mod does not mean that they are just some hopeless loser with too much time on their hands... They could simply just be interested in making their game look better to themselves, and considerate enough to release it to others.

 

 

There was not a real intention to stereotype anybody. There is an explanation for this, really. The image of that "person" was actually a professor I had for a digital animation class a few years ago. So his image seemed to cloud over the "good stuff," causing me to think of him being dirty and leaving me with a headache.

 

Quote:

 

They could simply just be interested in making their game look better to themselves, and considerate enough to release it to others.

 

Response:

 

Making the game look better? What about breasts twice the size of basketballs? I cannot see how that isnt clearly focused on being erotic.

[Skree000]

Making the game look better? What about breasts twice the size of basketballs? I cannot see how that isnt clearly focused on being erotic.

See, now you are exaggerating. NSFW pic

the chick on the right is about twice as big as basketballs (Found this in bout 10 seconds via google search)

What we see in our games is more than likely no larger than the size of the head. That seems to be the cutoff point. Exaggeration is fine but lets not get carried away :)