Do you think Beth is getting lazy because of modders?

[Wouter445]

I think the whole game industrie is on a collision course.

they release anything on multi platforms, not much of a problem you think but lets be honest consols controls are primitive compare to mouse keyboard.

also the process power of game consoles, are just poorly and none adaptive.

and developing computer games for only a PC is juist to costly in turns of profit,not do to piracy but simple game development

and to many people requested to release a product.

 

Xbox One is good for Personal computer Users, it's juist a PC with fansy controler might even turn PC into league again.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Wouter445

[MidevalGuy]

I think the whole game industrie is on a collision course.

they release anything on multi platforms, not much of a problem you think but lets be honest consols controls are primitive compare to mouse keyboard.

 

Controllers may have less buttons, but that doesn't make them (or those who use controllers) any less than those who play with a keyboard & mouse... Especially for people who don't like playing games with mouse & keyboard, or who physically can't play hunched over a mouse and keyboard for whatever reason. I sure as Hell don't like using a mouse & keyboard for games since I work with a m&k all day long, so I want a game to feel like a "game" when i sit down and play it, not like I am doing more work once I get home.

 

Something related to this I forgot to mention in my last post is...

 

The games industry is similar to a lot of industries where concepts often exceed technology and this has everything to do with what defines a traditional RPG. I will make an educated guess if we had better gaming technology (not just consoles) Bethesda could probably make a game that is more in line with what their overall vision of what an RPG should be like. As another poster wrote, you can tell they are trying new things, but they just aren't there yet and a lot of it has to do with technological limitations more so than vision, IMO.

[Lachdonin]

melee combat in ALL The Elder Scrolls games has been a means to a method (leveling up) more than the main attraction.

 

 

 

Can't it be both, though? Well, sort of... I don't think it should be the main attraction, because it focuses on only one paradigm of what the game is about. Magic, combat and stealth should all be equally represented.

 

That said, we've been seeing some changes to how combat is done, at least in first person. Parrying in Halo, Analogue combat in Dead Island, dodging in various games... The resources exist to make combat interesting and involved, it just hasn't been implement yet. By anyone. Really, this isn't only Bethesda's problem, everyone's stuck on the same thing, picking our parts but not assembling the whole picture.

[DashingKnight]

I don't think Bethesda is lazy at all. In fact, the last time I fired up Skyrim my mind was flooded with wonder. I was thinking to myself just how much work actually went into the game. They really put allot into the design and I'm amazed at all the little details they included. Just look at how well they made use of such a massive environment. I mean seriously every area is filled with so much detail. Like all the little items and whatnot's they placed in dungeons and interiors for example.

 

From a Modder's perspective, I can't even begin to imagine all the work that went into making Skyrim. It really takes allot of effort and time just to make small Mods. That's if you give it your all and want to produce a quality Mod. To design an entire game on the scale and magnitude of Skyrim is just incredible. Don't take Bethesda for granted. We are really fortunate that we have a company that is so dedicated to presenting gamers with such quality.

 

[Ometh]

IMHO Beth needs to move away from the classic level/stats/perks system in general. Imagine, instead, you start out max level. You're equally proficient in all things, allowing you to alter your class at any point with zero repercussions.

 

Instead they should focus on other aspects. Smarter AI, smarter customization (the Spell/Enchanting system in Morrowind anyone?), greater freedom is what MADE this franchise and why Morrowind was hailed like it was.

 

You weren't pigeonholed into strict classes.. Attempting my old play style from Morrowind feels heavy and cumbersome. Magic wielding, two handed, heavy armor user. Magic doesn't feel like it makes a huge difference like it previously did. (50 foot Fireballs for wiping out towns anyone?)

 

It was beyond wonderful continent hopping with Jump as opposed to quick travel (though I will admit hatred for the loading screens) because it felt more realistic and in all honesty, grander.

 

A lot of the user modifications add stuff that should of been in there from the get go.

 

There was just an untold number of things that were just downgraded or scrapped that needed to be implemented in Skyrim. /:

[Lachdonin]

I don't think that starting at max level is a good idea... Not even remotely... It totally removes character development and progression. I also don't think that you should have zero repercussions in radically changing your gameplay. If you spend 100 hours playing as a Warrior, tromping around in full plate and waving around a claymore, wheres the justification that you should instantly be a master of stealth archery?

 

Spell Crafting was, frankly, something that should never have been removed, but that's really the only thing that was scrapped.

 

As for choice... Morrowind didn't really have all that much choice. There was only ever one way to finish missions, and if you decided you wanted to be 'free' and just murder everyone, you lost the ability to do just about everything. Choice has been getting better over the years, not worse.

[MidevalGuy]

I agree better AI and more features (like custom Spell casting) are never a bad thing, but here is what is fundamentally wrong with Skyrim if you guys really want to get into it:

 

The vanilla version is unbalanced & broken on fundamental levels.

 

I'm sure this has been rehashed a thousand times in the two years since the game was released, so forgive me for doing it again just so we are all on the same page:

 

-Magic is so nerfed (damage doesn't scale as you level up) that playing a mage is not fun, or even worth it in the vanilla game. Sure, you have all these players exploiting Alchemy and Enchanting to get magicka cost reductions down to zero, but we all know this probably was not how Bethesda intended for the vanilla Mage class to be played. This backs up my first post on this forum where I claimed Bethesda put the emphais on warrior class characters since melee is much easier to understand from both a game play and mathematical point of view of the average (non-gamer) player. Higher AR (Armor Rating) means less damage and higher DR (Damage Rating) per weapon means hit harder.. At least, in theory. This leads me to...

 

-The armor rating and damage reduction systems in vanilla Skyrim are screwed up because they are inversely related. So, players don't even need to go beyond Steel to max out the armor rating and damage reduction caps before a tenth of the game e.g. the main quest is even finished. This makes higher level armor and weapons like Glass and Daedric pointless unless players (once again!) resort to crafting and enchanting exploits just so they can feel like they are "Gods" when this is something the game should have done automatically if its core crafting and armor mechanics were implemented properly. This leads me to...

 

-The whole game seems like it is built almost exclusively around smithing since players can craft and enchant weapons and armor that are statistically higher than vanilla Deadric artifacts that are supposed to be quest rewards & the most powerful items in the game. This is just bad game design and only encourages exploits because playing normally doesn't yield the type of rewards relative to the time invested in completing the quests. This also demonstrates a point I made in a previous post about playing a spread sheet instead of playing a game. If getting the best gear just means grinding smithing and not going out and adventuring then what is the point? I want to play an adventure game, not an assembly line simulator.

 

-The biggest problem with Skyrim is probably how the world scales with the player. I realize this is to allow total freedom... Which itself is an illusion because every dungeon/quest has a minimum player level regardless... But this is precisely why players complain about feeling weaker the longer they play. The only time you feel like you are growing as a character is during the main quest because that is a controlled experience built around traditional story telling (introduction, conflict, climax, resolution), but most players finish the quest around level 20, or even the late teens as far as levels go, so the rest of the game doesn't feel as rewarding because some fights actually get harder instead of easier due to the level scaling in place. It's not as bad as Oblivion where everything scaled directly and there was almost no sense of progress e.g. Bandits would be decked out in Glass and Daedric armor, but it's still bad game design if the player doesn't feel like they can handle themselves in the world even after defeating the main boss of the game, Aludin.

 

So, even though I like Skyrim, I can't ignore some of the fundamentally bad game design choices it has because they reveal how limited... not lazy... Bethesda was when creating the game.

[Lachdonin]

Magic in Skyrim was horribly broken. I don't think it's possible for anyone to argue otherwise (though, from an in-universe perspective, Magic has become far less prevalent and subject to superstition... Still, there should be SOME reward for investigating the mysteries of Aetherius). I've even seen posts on the Beth Forums where they've admitted that they put too much emphasis on Shouts at the expense of magic.

 

I also agree that the smithing and enchanting systems are terribly exploitable, but i feel the need to point out that, previously, Enchanting and Spellcrafting amounted to the same thing. It's somewhat come full circle that magic in Morrowind and Oblivion could be absurdly overpowered, to it being next to useless in Skyrim... However, the ability to craft equipment would be well balanced if you couldn't improve anything... I mean, really, how sharp can a sword get? No Hira-dirg jokes!

 

I don't think the overall problem lies in the concepts displayed, but rather in the execution, and i've argued such before. A great many things present in Skyrim are vast improvements over previous models (Perks vs redundant stats and skills, dual wielding, interchangeable 'signs', item crafting vs totally useless ore clutter etc.) but it all seems... Unrefined. Which, lets face it, has been a problem with Elder Scrolls games from pretty much day one. Great ideas, not so great execution. The new leveling system in Morrowind, for instance, or the character creation in Oblivion. I don't think it's so much bad design choices, but rather deadline issues and a sort of tunnel vision. I say tunnel vision, because it's like each of the Perk Trees were designed in isolation, not considering eachother.

 

There are, of course, some engine issues which limit their capabilities. I don't think it's so crippling as some people have claimed (remember, the game is 2 years old at this point, what problems we see now are exaggerated by 24 months of new programming developments) but it's limited the implementation of other new ideas, such as the return of analogue combat, from being implementable.

[yzerman19]

No Bethesda is not getting lazy. Just modders are making my day...all 365 and 1/4!!!!!

[Rooker75]

To answer the OP, no.

 

I do wish they'd move on from Gamebryo though. I wish they'd left in custom spell-making too, as well as reusing the companion wheel from New Vegas. It really felt like a step backwards having to scroll through dialog again to work with companions. The wheel was so much better.

 

I'm so glad Microsoft is FINALLY upgrading the Xbox, so now we'll soon have games for PC that aren't dumbed down so as not to choke ancient hardware. I think it says quite a lot that Beth had a Skyrim texture overhaul ready to go when they (finally) released the CK. They probably wish they could have released it with those textures to begin with.