Why Didn't More Survive Helgen?

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

Now Aduin didn't seem to attack out of vengeance or anything. I am guessing he wanted more souls or whatever so he wanted to keep the war going so he only needed to attack enough for Ulfric to escape...

 

...so, I don't think Alduin was really pursuing people fleeing so why weren't there more survivors?

 

 

It just seemed like they made it seem like it was special that you survived the dragon attack when I don't feel like it was.

 

I didn't face the dragon and survive, I just ran away while he slaughtered everyone else, no sure why that qualifies me or makes a Jarl comfortable with sending me with his housecarl to save his city.

[StayFrosty05]

I always thought it was rather bizarre about the Jarl thinking your something special for escaping Helgen also. If it wasn't for the combined help of Ralof and Hadvar you would not have survived, just be another dead burnt body...and how is it all the Stormcloaks have their hands unbound so quickly, but your still left all trussed up.... :tongue: ...even the Horse Thief looses his bonds when he is shoot by the Archers...weak rope?.... :huh: ...and only the mighty Dovahkin can't break them?.... :tongue:

 

As for other Survivors....General Tullius, Ulfric, both Hadvar and Ralof...it doesn't matter who you escape with, the other always survives also...And the boy who Hadvar helps....*spoiler ahead*...the Boy can be found in a small Cabin a little south of Ivarstead.

[TheVampireDante]

Now Aduin didn't seem to attack out of vengeance or anything. I am guessing he wanted more souls or whatever so he wanted to keep the war going so he only needed to attack enough for Ulfric to escape...

 

...so, I don't think Alduin was really pursuing people fleeing so why weren't there more survivors?

 

The entire time the player is running around inside the keep and lower levels, Alduin is attacking the surface, so he's most likely taking out anyone that's running around up there while he's in the area. He was killing the ones attacking him first, but I could see him offing the fleeing people too. Doesn't matter to him who is want, a soul is a soul to him.

 

 

It just seemed like they made it seem like it was special that you survived the dragon attack when I don't feel like it was.

 

I didn't face the dragon and survive, I just ran away while he slaughtered everyone else, no sure why that qualifies me or makes a Jarl comfortable with sending me with his housecarl to save his city.

 

I think he does it purely because you've seen one when no one else he has at hand ever has. To Balgruf's mind, you know how they move and attack, I don't think he was expecting you to actually take part in the fight if there was to be one, as they had no idea if the Dragon would even still be in the area. Just offer advice on the matter to Irileth and the guardsmen if it was.

 

Of course, it doesn't go that way...

 

and how is it all the Stormcloaks have their hands unbound so quickly, but your still left all trussed up.... :tongue: ...even the Horse Thief looses his bonds when he is shoot by the Archers...weak rope?.... :huh: ...and only the mighty Dovahkin can't break them?.... :tongue:

 

I'd take a guess at they used the flames around the area to burn them off, or used some of the rubble and debris from broken buildings, maybe even a weapon dropped from someone.

 

 

As for other Survivors....General Tullius, Ulfric, both Hadvar and Ralof...it doesn't matter who you escape with, the other always survives also...And the boy who Hadvar helps....*spoiler ahead*...the Boy can be found in a small Cabin a little south of Ivarstead.

 

Always thought that the kid should have been brought along with you if you sided with Hadvar, instead of him getting passed off to someone else (who obviously makes it out. You'd have more of a variation in play styles during the escape - as you'd have a reason to try a stealthy approach by having a scared kid trailing behind Hadvar you want to keep quiet.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

I don't know Dante. We wouldn't be the only ones to have fled to underground I'd imagine and while he was busy attacking the surface and all that, you're telling me no one would have gotten far enough away to where he wouldn't have even bothered with them?

 

Not to mention, if each and every soul was so important, why not sack Riverwood (which he flies over well enough to where they see him) and Whiterun?

 

Balgruuf's mind is that I have more experience with them than anyone and while technically correct, it doesn't seem right to rely on me so heavily and or so quickly.

 

If that dragon wasn't killing everyone else... well, attacking everything else rather, I'd be dead too. If he had just asked me stuff, that would have been one thing, but sending me with Irileth makes little to no sense to me.

 

Lol@Frosty, yeah that was kind of ridiculous. Whatever it is they did, I would think that we would have been able to get ourselves free too.

 

I know there were other survivors, but I felt like given Alduin's goal at the time, there probably should have actually been more.

[blacksupernova]

The way I see it, Alduin wasn't actually trying to kill people to get more soul. He simply returned to the world, tried to find the nearest town (and Helgen is so conveniently located near Throat of the World, where he emerged), scout the area and demonstrated his power to see if human any stronger after all these year, and he signaled the return of dragon to men. I think because Alduin has just emerged, he probably would not know anything about the civil war or ulfric or anything, so he just attack randomly and not to free Ulfric.

 

As for why more didn't survive Helgen, I guess that's because Alduin summoned meteor shower when he appeared which destroyed buildings and probably killed most town people (while in the game, the meteors do not hit any thing, I assume that's to avoid the PC being killed too early since the meteors hit randomly and have AOE). So while he was busy attacking the soldiers on the ground, the meteors took care of anything else. The soldiers had to protect the town people before fleeing, so most of them didn't make it either.

[TheVampireDante]

I don't know Dante. We wouldn't be the only ones to have fled to underground I'd imagine and while he was busy attacking the surface and all that, you're telling me no one would have gotten far enough away to where he wouldn't have even bothered with them?

 

The Player wasn't the only one to get inside. Look at all the Imperial or Stormcloak guys in the keep, Now the Imperials might have already been in there, but the Stormcloaks? Pretty sure some of them came from the group you were with up top.

The people of Helgen would have ran to their homes - which as we know, didn't exactly survive the attack.

 

As for running far enough away, not one person I seen on any of the times round that escape did I see anyone heading for the gates. The one you entered by are closed - the one behind you is open, but small, and right next to where the attack started, not many would go that way as they would have already started running in the other direction due to the Dragon sitting on the tower next to it at the time.

 

 

Not to mention, if each and every soul was so important, why not sack Riverwood (which he flies over well enough to where they see him) and Whiterun?

 

Start small, and he flew over Bleakfalls Barrow, he might not have spotted Riverwood from the air, or decided that the few people there wasn't worth the effort (compared to what he just did at at least).

 

I think Alduin went for Helgen due to the amount of people, he'd just returned from his exile - he'd be weakened at first. So perhaps it was a "fuel stop" in order for him to have the energy to head to Skuldafn to check on the status of his portal to Sovngarde. and perhaps to throw a few souls in there for him to test if his soul devouring powers were still working.

 

There very well could have been more survivors, but as far as your concerned - You made it, whether by pure luck or because someone helped you. Anyone else that managed to get out, good luck to them.

 

Might be something for one of those mods that adds wandering NPC's around the place - a few random Helgen survivors you can run into on the roads as they go looking for somewhere else to settle and rebuild.

 

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

I guess the question would be why not then? Why would people head into their homes if there is a Dragon destroying them?

 

Also, if a settlement that is just a slight move over isn't worth the numbers, it just doesn't seem like "singles" of people fleeing into the woods would be either.

 

It seems questionable that only the soldiers would have made it down there and that none of the imperial soldiers would have made getting the people out of Helgen (or to safety) a priority.

 

I could see your point that maybe he didn't see Riverwood... maybe, but how did he know to attack Helgen if he didn't know the lay of the land?

[TheVampireDante]

Helgen's out in the open, completely visible from above due to the towers and stonework. Riverwood, not so much. Biggest thing there is the sawmill, so he'd have seen one roofed construct and little else unless he'd taken the time to head down.

 

As for only soldiers escaping - we never see how Tullius or Ulfric actually get out. Last we see of Uflric is in the tower you run to, and Tullius is out of sight from the moment you touch the chopping block, I'd take a guess at their forces leading them out of Helgen instead of staying to help the town guard. The same way that bodyguards protect VIP's - making sure they get out of danger before anyone else.

 

As for people running to their homes? Fear.

 

When people are scared, they want to go somewhere they feel is safe, and to the people of Helgen, that was their homes. Obviously not the best constructs to protect them, but I doubt they were thinking rationally. If you remember the view as the carriage pulled into the settlement, most of the townsfolk where watching from their in front of their houses. the only people standing right out in the clear where the prisoners, the guards and the major characters (You, Ulfric, Tullius, Hadvar, Ralof, the preistess, Headsman, etc).

 

So I could see most of the people just turning around and diving inside their homes. By the time you've stood up and started running for that first tower most of the townsfolk are either gone from sight (indoors), injured (the woman you run past) or still trying to find a way (the man and the boy where Hadvar is).

[StayFrosty05]

I guess the question would be why not then? Why would people head into their homes if there is a Dragon destroying them?

 

Also, if a settlement that is just a slight move over isn't worth the numbers, it just doesn't seem like "singles" of people fleeing into the woods would be either.

 

It seems questionable that only the soldiers would have made it down there and that none of the imperial soldiers would have made getting the people out of Helgen (or to safety) a priority.

 

I could see your point that maybe he didn't see Riverwood... maybe, but how did he know to attack Helgen if he didn't know the lay of the land?

Panicking people do the dumbest things, it's human nature...their not thinking, just running for their lives towards anything they may consider safe, we see our homes as safe ports and so it does in fact make sense that many would run into and cower in their home.

 

When your lying on the ground after Alduin has knocked you over at the Heads Man Block you can here Tullius shouting the order, "Get the People to safety"....a direct order given to the Imperial Soldiers.

[Scorch621]

Dunno if anyone else has mentioned but theres also an Imperial Guardsman who deserted after he survived Helgen in the Redwater Den from Dawnguard...he's a skooma addict now