CTDs after loading specific vanilla outfits

[HadenMH]

What do you mean by 'expanded directory in SSEEdit?'

I guess that answers that question, but I was referring to what SSEEdit shows when I expand SkyrimSE.exe.

Anyway, once again, those files indeed are absent.

 

Sometimes, when for a given armor, the _0.nif is fine, but _1 has issues, you do not observe a problem unless you set weight to 1.

Interesting that you would say this since all my crash logs point to the f_0.nif, preceded by a line mentioning "Exported using Outfit Studio."

 

Since I'm not sure if this is actually getting me anywhere, it might be high time I show an example of the issue that keeps repeating from my crash logs:

 

 

Skyrim SSE v1.6.640

CrashLoggerSSE v1-6-0-0 Dec 10 2022 00:16:34

Unhandled exception "EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION" at 0x7FF7C23555DA SkyrimSE.exe+13B55DA movsd xmm0, qword ptr [rbp+0x0C]

SYSTEM SPECS:

OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Home v10.0.19041

CPU: GenuineIntel Intel® Core i5-9400F CPU @ 2.90GHz

GPU #1: Nvidia TU116 [GeForce GTX 1660 Ti]

GPU #2: Microsoft Basic Render Driver

PHYSICAL MEMORY: 10.92 GB/15.94 GB

PROBABLE CALL STACK:

[ 0] 0x7FF7C23555DA SkyrimSE.exe+13B55DA -> 105514+0x6A movsd xmm0, qword ptr [rbp+0x0C]

[ 1] 0x7FF7C23865FB SkyrimSE.exe+13E65FB -> 106493+0x6B mov rcx, rsi

[ 2] 0x7FF7C1C36365 SkyrimSE.exe+0C96365 -> 70381+0x1C5 mov rax, [rsi]

[ 3] 0x7FF7C1C3433D SkyrimSE.exe+0C9433D -> 70333+0x2D jmp 0x00007FF7C1C34341

[ 4] 0x7FF7C1D20B88 SkyrimSE.exe+0D80B88 -> 75949+0x88 movzx edi, al

[ 5] 0x7FF7C1D17DC9 SkyrimSE.exe+0D77DC9 -> 75773+0xC9 movzx ebx, al

[ 6] 0x7FF7C11672E0 SkyrimSE.exe+01C72E0 -> 15434+0x110 xor edi, edi

[ 7] 0x7FF7C1167487 SkyrimSE.exe+01C7487 -> 15435+0x137 lea rcx, [r15+0x168]

[ 8] 0x7FF7C1D19960 SkyrimSE.exe+0D79960 -> 75795+0x150 mov rcx, [rdi+0x08]

[ 9] 0x7FF7C1D1A5B0 SkyrimSE.exe+0D7A5B0 -> 75814+0x30 mov eax, [rsp+0x30]

[10] 0x7FF7C1C1DA0F SkyrimSE.exe+0C7DA0F -> 69809+0x4F add r12d, eax

[11] 0x7FF7C1D1681D SkyrimSE.exe+0D7681D -> 75716+0x5D add rbx, 0x08

[12] 0x7FF7C1D1312F SkyrimSE.exe+0D7312F -> 75651+0x13F mov [rbp+0x48], r12

[13] 0x7FF7C1BE5E4D SkyrimSE.exe+0C45E4D -> 68445+0x3D mov rcx, [0x00007FF7C3FA6898]

[14] 0x7FFCBEA87614 KERNEL32.DLL+0017614

[15] 0x7FFCBEDA26A1 ntdll.dll+00526A1

REGISTERS:

RAX 0x0 (size_t) [0]

RCX 0xF0000 (size_t) [983040]

RDX 0x0 (size_t) [0]

RBX 0x21339BCE080 (BSLightingShaderProperty*)

Flags: 0x180400000

Name: "€aÂ÷"

RTTIName: "BSLightingShaderProperty"

NiPropertyType: kShade (01)

Name: "€aÂ÷"

RSP 0xE7CE76EFE0 (void*)

RBP 0x0 (size_t) [0]

RSI 0xE7CE76F280 (BSStream*)

Header: author: version: 100 processScript: Exported using Outfit Studio. exportScript:

inputFilePath: "data\MESHES\armor\dbarmor\dbarmortorso_f_0.nif"

RDI 0xE7CE76F248 (BSResourceNiBinaryStream*)

R8 0xE7CE76ECA8 (void*)

R9 0xE7CE76EED0 (void*)

R10 0x0 (size_t) [0]

R11 0xE7CE76EF50 (void*)

R12 0x0 (size_t) [0]

R13 0x7FF7C404E7B0 (void* -> SkyrimSE.exe+30AE7B0 fdiv st0, dword ptr [rbx+0x7FF7C27F])

R14 0x0 (size_t) [0]

R15 0x33 (size_t) [51]

 

 

 

When I consider that a condition for accessing the f_0.nif file is not being fulfilled (hence the "exception_access_violation") and that Outfit Studio keeps getting mentioned, it makes me think that the "folder managed by Vortex" file, dated to May of 2020, should also be absent in the dbarmor folder. (Again, it's the only file that remains there whether mods are enabled or not.) Am I on to something or should I leave that alone?

[scorrp10]

In SSEEdit, you would need to expant 'Skyrim.esm', not 'SkyrimSE.exe'

 

That crashlog is from Dec 10. Was this crash from when you still had mods in place? Got anything more recent?

If the problem is indeed with meshes\armor\dbarmor\dbarmortorso_f_0.nif, and it was generated by Outfit Studio, it is a BodySlide build, not native mesh from .bsa.

 

As far as 'managed by vortex' file goes, it is not an issue by itself. But it tells me two things:

1. At one point, you did have some mod mesh files in that directory. Potentially bad ones.

2. You did not clean out your Data directory as thoroughly as you claim. No telling what other leftovers might be still around, causing issues.

[HadenMH]

That crashlog is from Dec 10.

No, it actually isn't. Dec 10 was when I installed the crash logger. That log is the most recent one.

 

1. At one point, you did have some mod mesh files in that directory. Potentially bad ones.

At first, I thought this was the issue, but deleting those meshes and replacing them with new ones didn't work.

 

2. You did not clean out your Data directory as thoroughly as you claim. No telling what other leftovers might be still around, causing issues.

This isn't it, either. I double-checked everything that needs fixing, found that some DLC and CC content got dirty again and took care of that, and the game still crashes upon loading those outfits.

[scorrp10]

Well, it is really hard to diagnose this stuff remotely...

Is it both male and female or just one of them? How EXACTLY does it happen?

That is, can you describe step by step, what is your sequence of actions from starting a new game, that leads to a CTD?

 

Is your game at present in more or less vanilla state, with only maybe a few core things (SKSE, AddressLibrary, CrashLogger) installed?

As in, no armor-affecting .esp plugins enabled, no .nif files in Data/meshes/armor/dbarmor, and no .dds files in Data/textures/armor/dbarmor.

 

From how you describe it, I sorta paint this picture:

1. Start a new game. Either normally or by using coc at main menu. If using coc, use showracemenu via console to setup your character.

 

2. Make an initial save. (Save 1). From this point on, if you exit the game and restart, you can reliably load (Save 1) at all times.

 

3. In game you open console and type: help "shrouded armor"

You should get back something like:

ARMO: (000D2844) 'Shrouded Armor'

ARMO: (000E1F15) 'Ancient Shrouded Armor'

ARMO: (00105966) 'Shrouded Armor'

ARMO: (0010EB5B) 'Shrouded Armor'

D2844 is the enchanted version, 10EB5B is cheaper unenchanted. 105966 is a weird non-playable version, and if you try to do:

"player additem 105966 1" and then "player.showinventory", you will see that you actually received a '10EB5B'

 

4. You use command: "player.additem D2844 1", which puts a Shrouded Armor in your inventory.

 

5. You equip this armor - I take it at this time the game does not crash?

 

6. You make another manual save (Save 2)

 

7. You exit the game, start it again, and try loading (Save 2) - at which point game crashes. But you can still load (Save 1) just fine.

 

Does this describe things more or less accurately?

[HadenMH]

Yeah, real headscratcher, this one. Since I started modding Skyrim, I've been able to figure out the issues I've encountered by myself, for the most part. This is the first one that's actually left me stumped. Also, I don't know why, but I feel like the solution is going to make me feel like an idiot...

 

Is it both male and female or just one of them? How EXACTLY does it happen?

That is, can you describe step by step, what is your sequence of actions from starting a new game, that leads to a CTD?

It only seems to happen with the female version of those armors. As for how...

Okay, it started happening after I upgraded from SE to AE and went through the arduous process of getting all my mods to work with it. But then I got CTDs in seemingly random places and couldn't figure out what was going on until I installed that crash logger which pointed me towards specific vanilla armor meshes. Every time a female character spawned in wearing those armors, or my female character put one on, the game just died. Disabling and reenabling mods got me nowhere, and the first time I tried playing the game in a vanilla state, it still happened, though I don't quite remember the exact details of that attempt because that was several months ago. Now that you have me try it again, it oddly isn't having the same problem at all and I'm not sure what changed. Going back to the modded game, it happens. Funnily enough, I was able to find a workaround for the barkeeper outfit by applying a replacer to it; I guess I gave the game new meshes to work with. Unfortunately, this did not work for the shrouded armor or Forsworn armor, and I can't find a replacer for the vampire robes.

In regards to the steps you listed off, well, not quite. As mentioned, if I play the game with nothing but SKSE, it all of a sudden wants to work fine now. Those armors do not give me any trouble whatsoever. (This confuses me because I already tried this and got the same problems the first time, but I guess it's possible that I didn't disable all the mods that time or I did something wrong. Again, I don't remember the details.) Going back to the modded game, I get the CTDs. If it's a mod being faulty, I can't pinpoint which one because I've already tried the method of disabling and reenabling mods one by one and that solved nothing. I'm now starting to think something is wrong with Bodyslide or the body I'm using (CBBE/3BA if that's relevant), but I have the most recent versions of those and no one in their comment sections is reporting this same error. If there's a conflict going on, nothing is pointing me to what's causing it because I didn't have anything affecting those armors aside from Bodyslide. If something is getting in the way of my game accessing those meshes thus causing the access violation, I have no idea what.

[7531Leonidas]

I had a problem with uninstalling some mods under Vortex some time back, not sure when. A few .esp and/or .bsa files were left in the Game Mods folder, don't know why - I had to remove them manually. In addition, there are the backup files that Vortex holds when you make changes to mods. Could either of these be the source of your problems? It might even be OneDrive or Google Drive related retention somehow being restored.

[scorrp10]

I doubt you have any skeleton or general body issues. If you did, your problem would be a lot more widespread.
Ok, so it is not happening on a truly clean game, that is good.

But if you, on your current modded setup:
Start new game via 'coc qasmoke' from main menu
Use 'player.placeatme 1bdb4' to spawn Astrid. (or 15cfe for female DB initiate)
She will appear in the 'prison' room ahead of you - do you CTD as soon as you see her?

Also
If you use 'showracemenu' to change to female, use 'player.additem d2844 1' to get shrouded armor (body item), and put it on, do you also CTD?

And with mods present, exactly what files you currently have in Data\meshes\armor\dbarmor? Are there both dbarmortorso_F_0.nif and dbarmortorso_F_1.nif? Do they have exact same size and 'last modified' timestamp?

 

Hypothetical situation:

You install mod X which comes with only dbarmortorso_F_1.nif, and in the .esp, it overrides native DBArmorAA form, setting female weight slider to 'disabled', so mod armor always renders at weight 1, thus only needing the _1 file. If it comes with Bodyslide project, that one is also flagged to generate the _1 nif file only.

Later, as part of your update to AE, mod X gets disabled, or your load order gets changed. Now, the last loaded plugin that has DBArmorAA form, has female weight slider set to 'enabled', but the dbarmortorso_F_1.nif file from mod X is still there. As soon as you try to render an actor with weight between 0 and 1, game will try to interpolate between the _0 file - likely found in Skyrim's native bsa, and _1 file that is from a mod. That is an almost always a recipe for crash.

[HadenMH]

Use 'player.placeatme 1bdb4' to spawn Astrid. (or 15cfe for female DB initiate)
She will appear in the 'prison' room ahead of you - do you CTD as soon as you see her?

As always, the game crashes, but not as soon as she's in my line of sight; it crashes the moment she spawns. (Edit: This is how it happens every time.)

 

If you use 'showracemenu' to change to female, use 'player.additem d2844 1' to get shrouded armor (body item), and put it on, do you also CTD?

Yep, that happens too.

 

You and 7531Leonidas bring up some very plausible explanations. Assuming them to be the root of my troubles, how would I go about correcting them?

 

In the dbarmor folder, there are actually a lot of files present, most of which I can account for, but some are specifically for Argonian bodies, some with "kha" in their names, and others with "gnd", not sure where any of those came from. Aside from that, there are indeed the f_0.nif and f_1.nif files in there, dated the same, but not the same size. The f_0.nif is the smaller one. I take it that's not right?

Edited January 7, 2023 by HadenMH

[scorrp10]

'kha' meshes are for Khajiit. 'gnd' are 'ground' meshes for when item is dropped (also to show item in inventory)

 

And looks like we are getting to the root of this. Those _0 and _1 nif file pairs need to be identical.

 

 

They must literally match vertex-for-vertex, only difference being actual coordinates of each vertex. Engine uses _0 for weight 0, _1 for weight 100, and interpolates per-vertex for anything in between.

 

How to fix... The way you describe it, you likely had some mod that changes the look of ALL DB armor(and likely a few others) - hence you have all those files. I would try to remember what it was.

If you use Vortex, and at any point installed CBBE, look for it (search for Caliente), right-click the mod and choose 'manage file conflicts' See with which mods CBBE competes for dbarmortorso_f_0/1.

Whatever that mod is, completely remove and reinstall it.

 

Another option: run Bodyslide, (again, assuming CBBE, but UNP should have something similar), select outfit 'CBBE Vanilla - Body - Dark Brotherhood'. In lower left, it will indicate the output path. If it is in red or blue, you can right-click to see if there are other Bodyslide projects for same target file.

Select whichever variant you prefer and build it. This should overwrite you dbarmortorso_f_* files properly.

[HadenMH]

And like that, we have our answer. It made me laugh uncontrollably because it's hysterical, but it's not funny.

 

If you look back to the crash log I showed you, you'll notice that the file pathway is "data\MESHES\armor\dbarmor\dbarmortorso_f_0.nif". But let me be more specific: the whole pathway is "Steam 2\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\Data\MESHES\armor\dbarmor". That's where the game was trying to pull the meshes, but because it grabbed an invalid one, it had no other option but to crash.

Here's where it gets hysterical: the pathway that Bodyslide has been saving to this whole time is in... "Steam 2\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\Meshes\armor\dbarmor". Something is missing there.

 

Those meshes are invalid because when Bodyslide built them, it saved their .nif files to the wrong folder. At least this doesn't make me feel stupid (and it explains a bunch of other things), but it's still preposterous.

 

Thankfully, the fix was simple. Reroute the output of Bodyslide. I don't know why the output path changed in the first place or why I have two separate meshes paths now, but I no longer feel like I'm headbutting a brick wall. For now, that is.

 

You've been a big help, and you clearly spend a lot of time doing this because I've seen your comments around Nexus where you give others tech support for when Skyrim "just works". It's already taken me forever to identify this issue and it would have taken me even longer to fix it without your assistance. Thank you very much, scorrp10.