Where did the good games go?

[Fistandilius]

I used to enjoy JRPGs a lot, but something happened to that genre of gaming last gen, when most of the games were placed on hand held systems, and also I don't like the art direction, and themes for a lot of the newer JRPGs. They've gotten more kiddy, colorful and whimsical. And I also hate gaming on a hand held. I prefer a larger screen with a traditional gaming pad. I also see zero innovation taking place in that genre outside of hollow gimmicks. Its gotten to the point where I'd rather they make something solid in a way they know how to do well instead of trying to innovate with cheap, hollow gimmicks.

 

If they call something like FF XIII "innovative", then honestly I wish they would just quit making games, period. They totally missed the mark in that game, and failed to include far too many things people enjoy the most about those games, like towns, story and exploration. No towns, the story was convoluted, I didn't know what the hell they were talking about when they said Lacie or a Cieth until near the end of the game, and the maps were incredibly linear with only a few exceptions. You also couldn't go back and revisit most areas in the game.

 

One side effect of better graphics for me is I no longer have any patience for a menu based system. I gave up on the final fantasy series at Final Fantasy 10, because quite honestly once the graphics got that good, I wanted to interact with my environment rather than stop and have a menu battle. I played FF12 a little bit (a friend owned it), and I know they tried to make it more involved, but it still had way too much menu play for me. Now obviously you're always going to have menu's with any type of fantasy game, but I lean more towards games like Skyrim in that respect where you can hot key something, or go to the menu when you want to, rather than be forced into it. The odd thing is, I can go back and play FF7 (which I just bought on steam not too long ago) and play them with no problems... but it's still the old polygonal graphics more or less, despite their supposed attempts to clean it up.

 

Another thing I noticed about myself is I am becoming somewhat of a controller snob as I get older. For example, when GTAIII first came out, I played it, finished it, tried to get 100%, etc. I missed VIce City, but then bought San Andreas. Now I don't know if anyone noticed much at the time, because it was a subtle change, but in SA, they changed the controller method to allow you to spin your character's camera rather than rely on the camera ai. The result of that is that I could no longer go back and play Vice City, OR GTAIII, because the older controls, with their lack of response drove me nuts!

 

Then I have one last comment in response to the talk about innovation.... there came a point.... and I hesitate to say exactly when, but there came a point where you didn't necessarily buy just a FPS, or an RPG, or a sandbox... GTAIII for example had racing levels, it had mini games, etc.... FF7 had a lot of mini games, chocobo racing, etc. The older I get the more I find I'm story driven more than anything else. I want to get to the next part to see how it plays out.... When I have to stop because I'm playing something I don't want to do, it annoys me. I don't like racing levels. I don't like having to get a certain score on a racing level to unlock the next portion of a FPS game (yes I'm looking at you, Rage) I'm also getting more and more irritated with the idea of a "boss fight". You all know what I mean... boss characters have been around since the beginning, but back in the day, the guy might be a little faster or something, but the mechanic was the same. Now days boss fights become more and more frustrating to me because the difficulty keeps me from enjoying the game. I know it started for me with that dark knight type character in Devil May Cry 1, who was a total PITA to get past, and more recently, Vamp from MGS4, and Bane from Batman Arkham Asylum both drove me to frustration. Bane I managed to beat in two sessions, but I still haven't gotten past Vamp, and that's keeping me from seeing how the game ends.

[Vagrant0]

 

I used to enjoy JRPGs a lot,

 

Then I have one last comment in response to the talk about innovation....

 

Then the issue is not about "games being all the same" so much as you just not liking the direction that games have been going lately. It's certainly understandable, particularly in the case of games being more reliant on twitch reaction instead of pattern recognition, or being more linear, or just being made more kid friendly. But you have to realize that the whole point of innovation is to entice new customers to a franchise or make the latest version different enough from the previous version that people can tell the difference (not that I can consider FFXII or FFXIII a step in the right direction either). It's when a franchise changes almost nothing between versions that they are trying to cater to the fans of the series... For primarily that same reason you both state, the fact that most of the fans of a series won't like any major changes to how the game plays.

 

It's the same reason why the more successful MMOs other than WoW have similar core mechanics to WoW. Companies have acknowledged that there are x million WoW players who might be bored with the world, but who liked how WoW played, so they design their game to have similar elements so that former WoW players may more easily pick up their game. If you really look, there are about as many WoW-like MMOs as there are non-WoW-like MMOs... You just never really hear about the non-WoW-like ones since there aren't many people playing them.

[Fistandilius]

Then the issue is not about "games being all the same" so much as you just not liking the direction that games have been going lately. It's certainly understandable, particularly in the case of games being more reliant on twitch reaction instead of pattern recognition, or being more linear, or just being made more kid friendly. But you have to realize that the whole point of innovation is to entice new customers to a franchise or make the latest version different enough from the previous version that people can tell the difference (not that I can consider FFXII or FFXIII a step in the right direction either). It's when a franchise changes almost nothing between versions that they are trying to cater to the fans of the series... For primarily that same reason you both state, the fact that most of the fans of a series won't like any major changes to how the game plays.

 

It's the same reason why the more successful MMOs other than WoW have similar core mechanics to WoW. Companies have acknowledged that there are x million WoW players who might be bored with the world, but who liked how WoW played, so they design their game to have similar elements so that former WoW players may more easily pick up their game. If you really look, there are about as many WoW-like MMOs as there are non-WoW-like MMOs... You just never really hear about the non-WoW-like ones since there aren't many people playing them.

 

 

Which is why I personally have always stoutly disagreed with changes within a franchise. To be short, don't ruin a good thing, don't fix it if it ain't broke, however you want to phrase it. Not to go too off topic, but it's the same thing that pisses me off about the recent movie franchises. The GI Joe remake for example. They made Ripcord black. Ripcord is a white character in the Joe universe. Now if they had to be politically correct and add a black actor, fine. The GI Joe franchise has many black characters since 1983 when Roadblock came out. But don't change a character. It's basically just an excuse to prostitute out the GI Joe franchise name and get an extra twenty thousand people to go see your crap movie because it says GI Joe on it. If you want to make changes, be original and give it a new name for your latest military spi flick.

 

The same thing with a video game series. I LIKE Metal Gear. That's why I play it. But if you tried to turn Metal Gear into a FPS, I probably wouldn't play it. I'm not a big FPS fan. I wouldn't have enjoyed Skyrim if it was a menu based RPG as much, and I wouldn't want to play God of War as a side scroller (although an 8 bit version would be cool just for nostalgia.)

 

I just think if you want to be innovative, be innovative. Come up with a new story idea. Don't slap the fans of the series in the face by putting out a crap product. We have EA for that.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Fistandilius

[hoofhearted4]

Just throwing it out there. Vamp is an easy fight. I've beat him 4 or 5 times on multiple different difficulty settings. if you wanna hint read on.

 

 

****SPOLIER****

 

 

 

All you have to do it attack him until he drops. Then run over and inject him with your nanobot injector. You do this like 4 times and eventually you'll pass that part of the fight.

 

 

 

****END SPOILER****

[Fistandilius]

Just throwing it out there. Vamp is an easy fight. I've beat him 4 or 5 times on multiple different difficulty settings. if you wanna hint read on.

 

 

****SPOLIER****

 

 

 

All you have to do it attack him until he drops. Then run over and inject him with your nanobot injector. You do this like 4 times and eventually you'll pass that part of the fight.

 

 

 

****END SPOILER****

Yeah, I know, but I always put it off for so long that I can't remember which heavy weapon brings him down and then I never CQC him fast enough because I can't remember which button to hit. That's what comes of putting a game off for a long time and then trying to come back to it. It doesn't help that old snake moves so slow.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Fistandilius

[hoofhearted4]

in that case, you need to restart the game so you can can back into the feel of the game

 

also, any weapon brings him down.

[Fistandilius]

in that case, you need to restart the game so you can can back into the feel of the game

 

also, any weapon brings him down.

 

Yeah, but some quicker than others.

 

I got a perfect example going on right now of what I'm talking about. Playing Batman Arkham Asylum. They just give you a new toy.. The Ultra Batclaw. You clear out a room full of thugs and you're ready to go back into the main game area and get to all the areas that were unreachable before, so you're totally pumped, and then they dump you in the middle of an insanely hard boss fight:

 

 

And of course I'm playing on hard difficulty, because if you don't play on the highest setting then you have no shot at all of getting the platinum. Overall that's not that big a deal to me, but it's nice to get 100% completion when I can. I've been raging at this thing for an hour now. I just want to get back to the "normal" gameplay, and I'm stuck in this stupid area.

 

It's also a good example of how there's a lot less game "types" now. Batman introduced itself as a stealth game early on in the gameplay, but there's increasingly more areas as you go on where you can't use your environment and you have to just literally fight your way out. In most of the boss fights you have to completely relearn a new set of rules for the game. For example Killer Croc who I just beat you have to move as slowly as possible, then run when it tells you to, then be ready to throw your batwing when Croc emerges from the water. It's like a mini game to beat the boss. Some of them are fun like Scarecrow's levels. Some of them just irritate me like Killer Croc's because I just want to get to the next spot.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Fistandilius

[hoofhearted4]

maybe you should play games not on the hardest difficuly setting first, then play them on hard for a subsequent play through. thats what i do, because when you jump to hard right off the bat, then what happens is exactly what is happening to you, it gets too hard and you stop enjoying the game. play it on an easier setting first. enjoy the game, learn the game, etc. then play it on hard. then when you hit those spots you already have some strategy going in.

 

for example, thats how i platinumed Mass Effect 2 (on PS3) i played several playthroughs. first on regular, then hard. once i had the game mechanics down, and i had explored the game for what it was worth, explored both paths, done all the side planets and missions and stuff, i went back on easy, beat it to level a character and then took that toon and beat the game on Veteran for the platinum. Had i jumped straight in to Vet or even Hard, the game would have lost its fun long before I finished it. I wouldnt have had previous knowledge on certain fights. hell there were definitely certain side missions I would never have beaten on Vet, I didnt even attempt, so thank god i completed them on Normal and Hard first, otherwise my OCD to finish everything would have overtaken the fun of the game had i attempted it in Vet.

 

basically it sounds like you are ruining the game for yourself by jumping in too hard too fast, and trying to bust through the game. at least in your example for Batman.

[Fistandilius]

maybe you should play games not on the hardest difficuly setting first, then play them on hard for a subsequent play through. thats what i do, because when you jump to hard right off the bat, then what happens is exactly what is happening to you, it gets too hard and you stop enjoying the game. play it on an easier setting first. enjoy the game, learn the game, etc. then play it on hard. then when you hit those spots you already have some strategy going in.

 

for example, thats how i platinumed Mass Effect 2 (on PS3) i played several playthroughs. first on regular, then hard. once i had the game mechanics down, and i had explored the game for what it was worth, explored both paths, done all the side planets and missions and stuff, i went back on easy, beat it to level a character and then took that toon and beat the game on Veteran for the platinum. Had i jumped straight in to Vet or even Hard, the game would have lost its fun long before I finished it. I wouldnt have had previous knowledge on certain fights. hell there were definitely certain side missions I would never have beaten on Vet, I didnt even attempt, so thank god i completed them on Normal and Hard first, otherwise my OCD to finish everything would have overtaken the fun of the game had i attempted it in Vet.

 

basically it sounds like you are ruining the game for yourself by jumping in too hard too fast, and trying to bust through the game. at least in your example for Batman.

A lot of these games are not good enough to warrant two play throughs once you have learned the story. Bioshock was a great example. I played that one through and beat it on normal, but I don't like FPS's that much to begin with and the gameplay wasn't engaging enough that I've been able to go back through and do it on Survivor without using a restart, and get all the audio tapes I missed, etc. etc. If I had done it on the first playthrough, I could have gotten through it, but since I didn't, that game will forever be unfinished as I go on to Bioshock 2, and Bioshock: Infinite, unless I come back to it 4-5 years later when I can't remember the story and just feel like giving it another go.

 

In short, I'm much more likely to replay a game on an easier setting than I am to struggle through a hard game that I already know the story for.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Fistandilius

[hoofhearted4]

well so be it then. but it may just be your play style that gets you frustrated with certain games. but thats all thats left that i can say about that. im not trying to change the way you play games, or even comment on it. obviously you play games the way you want, no ifs ands or buts. and i hope you can get passed any portion of a game thats blocking your path to completetion. :P :thumbsup: