Is there any point to playing Skyrim anymore for me?

[InDarkestNight]

Technically my issue is with LE, just so we know. The board for that though clearly isn't getting looked at much, so I'm posting this.

 

I've been attemping the 'relic hunter' challenge for Legacy of the Dragonborn, where you attempt to collect every single item it has a display for. This entire playthrough though, I've been having issues with random freezes. I don't know what's causing them, I'm intentionally made a minimal load order so there shouldn't be any background scripts running. More mysteriously, they only happen when I'm in the overworld; they never ever happen when I'm in an interior cell, including walled cities!

 

Just now I got a freeze simply trying to leave whiterun, and so I decided to install Elephant's Script Latency tester to see if I could figure out what was wrong. I've heard that freezes are caused by too many scripts. Turns out, I do have too many scripts; simply using the mod's power makes my game freeze immediately.

 

I don't get why this is happening, I ran tests before starting this playthrough. My script latency was lower than it normally is (I normally run Frostfall), and I was even able to do a full lap around the map without a single freeze. It was only after I got deep into my playthrough that the freezes started happening. And no, I haven't started the main questline yet. I've only done the companions so far.

 

This has made me question if i can even play Skyrim anymore. If my game can't handle having NOTHING, then how could I ever run Frostfall again? Besides that I've been wondering: why do I keep just playing the same game over and over again? I've never found quest mod I felt inclined to keep installed other than Undeath, so I'm litearlly just doing the vanilla questlines over and over again. I've done every build possible, so I was thinking of installing perk overhauls and whatnot, though I haven't gotten around to it due to a literal backlog of playthroughs I have planned, including this one.

 

Why do I keep trying to keep this game running? I quit SE years ago because of bethesda's shenanigans. Besides, LE is far more stable on my system for some reason (believe it or not). I litearlly can't play SE even if I wanted to; even completely unmodded the thing's far too unstable to be playable. I feel like I'm chasing a fool's errand trying to keep this game playable. SE is dead to me and forever will be for obvious reasons, and its increasingly looking like even LE won't work for me other than for a 100% vanilla playthrough.

 

I've been playing this game for a full decade now, and I'm really thinking that its time to just let it lay down and die. Depressing as that is, I see no way to avoid it at this rate. I've fought tooth and claw to play this game, but I'm obviously fighting a losing battle. Besides, the game's doomed for me either way; I've long since lost the email I used for steam, meaning that when this computer fries and I have to get a new one, all my steam games are going with it, and I'll have no way to recover them. This game's going to die sooner or later, so what's the point in keeping up the battle? Why do I keep fighting a losing war? Why do I waste weeks of my free time for playthroughs that never last more than 4 or 5 days? Why am I doing this? I'm thinking I need to just accept defeat and accept that Skyrim is no more for me, and I need to just move on. I hate computers.

[scorrp10]

Not sure what 'shenanigans' you mean, but SE is an updated 64-bit engine that works much better with modern systems - especially once you got engine fixes in. You can also use the 1.5.97 downgrade option - which, among other things, will allow you to use the excellent NetScript Framework and its problem tracking. Practically any mod from LE should work on SE, potentially after running its assets through CAO. The exception would be some ancient 32-bit SKSE plugins abandoned before 2016 and never recompiled for SE.

Presently running 1.6.353 (too lazy to go 1.6.640 and having to update a whole bunch of stuff) with ~320 plugins - plus a bunch of mods without plugins, and my load is comparatively small. Some folks run stable 2000+ plugin SE setups.

 

IMHO, only real reason to use LE these days is for asset creation. A lot of tools used for it were never properly migrated to SE. The plugin for direct Blender NIF import/export is for Oldrim format only, same goes for animations. So a lot of creators build their assets for LE first and port to SE as final step.

 

I got to say for me personally, I have stopped truly "playing" Skyrim years ago. For me, it is a tech sandbox, as I been rather into scripting, 3D modeling, tinkering with quests/dialogue/audio, and presently trying to get my feet wet with SKSE plugin creation. I spend way more time in CK/Outfit Studio/Blender/Photoshop than in the game.

[InDarkestNight]

CAO doesn't work on a lot of people's computers, and mine is one of them. When I try to port meshes, the thing claims they were ported but they give me relentless crashes if I try to use them. So no, not everyone can port stuff.

 

Also, I have reasons to suspect that I actually have a 32 bit operating system, despite having a 64 bit machine. SE is unstable to the point of being unplayable by me, even without mods. In particular I have this consistent crash in dragonsreach that makes me unable to ever start the main questline or even talk to farengar. I never could narrow down what the issue was, and it shouldn't be present when there's not one mod installed. I even tried it just now with nothing but skse installed (I had SE uninstalled for years until that bs AE update was announced, decided to download the last version before that came out even though I had no plans on trying to get it to work again).

 

Like I said, LE is clearly more stable on my system. I know that's unusual, but its the truth in my case.

 

As for my script issue, I have no idea what's causing it. MO is showing a lot of files in the (virtual) scripts folder, but most of them are for things I need for LotD. What, do I need to remove CCF and Timing is Everything? I need the latter to delay quests so I don't have to do things like kill keeper Carcette before level 10. And yes, I know of the SE mod that fixes that, but back-porting it I found it to be buggy. It apparently places the objects in the world inside the structure before its destroyed. This means that if you visit the area before the hall is destroyed, it'll spawn and be deposited on the ground, and when the hall is destroyed it'll be below the floor inaccessible. Oh, and its set to not respawn, so it'll never be available.

 

I'm tempted to in just start all over again for the third time, but honestly I don't see how removing things like CCF and Timing is Everything is going to make much of a difference. Like I said, most of the scripts are from mods I need for LotD, so I don't have any choice but to run them. I don't get though why they only give me an issue later in the game and not early on. Like I said, on a fresh new game I can run laps around the whole map without a single issue, but later I can hardly walk 10 feet without a freeze. I think its even getting worse as I play. Why would that be? None of the scripts I have should even be firing all the time. Why would playing the game for more than a few in-game days cause script lag? It makes no sense.

 

I see no way I can continue with this playthrough with the way it is, and I don't see myself even trying this game again. I can't get SE to work right either, so that's even more pointless. At least I can play completely vanilla LE without any issues. I can even use SOME mods if I want, which I can't do in SE (even if it can handle better graphics mods than my LE can).

 

What's the point? I'm sick of trying to get LE is work, SE doesn't work no matter what I do. I need to just give up and move on from this ancient game. I've tried all I might to keep this game running but I can't. I need to just learn to accept defeat and accept that this game is dead and unplayable. I'm sick of fighting a battle I clearly cannot win.

[scorrp10]

Mod/Script interactions are a funny thing, especially if some mods overwrite .pex files from other mods, and then they instantiate scripts with properties different from what parent mod expects, and when parent mod tries to do stuff with those instances, it all goes haywire - seen it done that. Sometime, a badly written mod will spam new script instances without proper cleanup. (Or maybe it was a well written mod with cleanup but its cleanup section got overwritten by other mod). Then you get a save blowing up to 100MB+ and mega lag. And yeah, mods that mess with world are a doozy. Unless someone noted an issue and made a patch. I.e. With JK's cities, one of journals needed for Recorder's quest gets buried under added decorations. Thankfully, there is a JK cities + Recorder patch that moves said journals. With mods that change the world a LOT, combinations of conflicts (and thus potential variations of patches needed) can be nearly infinite. I can easily dive into CK or xEdit to fix stuff there, but once conflicting mods made a mess of things and wrote it into your save, it's too late for that playthrough. Unless you have a prior save to fall back to. Gotta pick your poison.

 

Too bad about your hardware/OS issue, but that is just something you need to sort out...

[InDarkestNight]

What size should a save file be? Looking at mine, they all seem to be hovering around 12k kb.

 

As for my load order, I guess I can post it here though I don't know what you could do with given that its for LE. Most of the mods on here are stuff the LE version of LotD has displays for (including Elemental Dragons which was dropped in v5 I think). Most of the stuff I do have is just bug fixes and some graphics mods. Like I said, timing is everything is in there to keep the hall of the vigilant from being destroyed before I get to it, and fiss is in there just for timing is everything (though I may have skipped it if I realized at the time that it had scripts, or took up an esp slot):

 

Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
Falskaar.esm
Gray Fox Cowl.esm
Vigilant.esm
Wyrmstooth.esp
AKSkyrimUnderground.esm
RSkyrimChildren.esm
RSChildren.esp
RSChildren Patch - USLEEP.esp
Patch - Falskaar - RS kids.esp
Patch - Wyrm - RS kids.esp
SkyUI.esp
FISS.esp
SMIM-Merged-All.esp
SRG Enhanced Trees Activator.esp
TrueStorms.esp
mintylightningmod.esp
WondersofWeather.esp
SPTConsistentOlderPeople.esp
Malborn Face Fix.esp
CosmeticVampireOverhaul.esp
LegacyoftheDragonborn.esp
ThaneWeaponsReborn.esp
DBM_SkyrimUnderground_Patch.esp
DBM_VigilantPatch.esp
LoTD Mannequins Behave.esp
AOS.esp
DBM_AOS_Patch.esp
LoTD USLEEP Patch.esp
DBM_RSChildren.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
DBM_CCF_Patch.esp
DeadlySpellImpacts.esp
AOS2_DSI Patch.esp
JS Barenziah - Johnskyrim.esp
Cloaks.esp
Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
DawnguardArsenal.esp
PrvtI_HeavyArmory.esp
DBM_HA+IW+IA+DG_Patch.esp
NewArmoury.esp
Animated Armour - Immersive Weapons Patch - Daedric Halberd Modification.esp
Animated Immersive Weaps.esp
AnimatedHeavyArmoury.esp
PrvtIRoyalArmory.esp
Unique Uniques.esp
AOS2_Unique Uniques Patch.esp
DBM_RoyalArmory_Patch.esp
ArtifactsOfBoethiah.esp
DBM_ArtifactsOfBoethiah_Patch.esp
Dawnguard&VolkiharArtifactsQuests.esp
DBM_DGE_Patch.esp
TreaclemanTGCONPatch.esp
Gray Fox Cowl - Camel patch.esp
Undeath.esp
UndeathFixesLE.esp
UndeathFixes The Ascension LE.esp
DBM_Undeath_Patch.esp
Falskaar Undeath Patch.esp
MoonAndStar_MAS.esp
MoonAndStar_RSC_Patch.esp
MoonAndStar_Undeath_compat.esp
DBM_MAS_Patch.esp
SL01AmuletsSkyrim.esp
SL01AmuletsSkyrimDGDB_Outfit_Cloaks.esp
DBM_AmuletsOfSkyrim_Patch.esp
WheelsOfLull.esp
KVLLullQuestStart60.esp
ForgottenCity.esp
ForgottenCity - Delayed Start.esp
FC WOL Formlist Patch.esp
RSChildren - ForgottenCity.esp
TheMadMasker.esp
DBM_MadMasker_Patch.esp
Helgen Reborn.esp
DBM_HelgenReborn_Patch.esp
Helgen Reborn-RSC patch.esp
konahrik_accoutrements.esp
konahrik_accoutrements_db.esp
DBM_DPA_Patch.esp
DBM_Armory_Imp_Leath2.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
DBM_RelicHunter.esp
Elemental_Dragons.esp
DBM_ElementalDragons_Patch.esp
Violent_Alduin_Normal.esp
DurnehviirResurrected.esp
Fossilsyum.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp
High Level Enemies - SIC.esp
High Level Enemies - SIC Falskaar.esp
DBM_ImmersiveCreatures_Patch.esp
NotSoFast-MainQuest.esp
LoTD NotSoFastMQ Patch.esp
BGtheCapturedFairies.esp
BadGremlinsJarHunt.esp
BGsomethingFishy.esp
BGtrophyHeads.esp
More Interesting Loot for Skyrim.esp
escutcheonredwave.esp
DBM_MIL+OAP_Patch.esp
treasure_hunt.esp
DBM_TreasureHunt_Patch.esp
AetheriumSwordsnArmor.esp
CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp
SkyrimsUniqueTreasures.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch - Falskaar.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch - TGCON.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch - HR.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch - ICW.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch - KA.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch - MAS.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch - TFC.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch - WOL.esp
LOTD Airship and Archaeology Patch - Wyrmstooth.esp
TimingIsEverything.esp
Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
RDO - USLEEP Patch.esp
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
AOS2_GDO Patch.esp
Hunters Not Bandits.esp
GDO Redux Hunters not Bandits patch.esp
dD-No Spinning Death Animation Merged.esp
Balanced Necromage Fix.esp
No Magic Ninja Dodge - No DLC.esp
AlwaysPickUpBooks.esp
QuestsAreInSkyrimUSLEEP.esp
LotD Skills in Book Titles Patch.esp
Yellow_Mountain_Flower.esp
No Vampire Cure on Rumors.esp
Night Eye Toggle.esp
Waterbreathing Breathless Emerge.esp
Player Size Adjuster.esp
NoBrokenWhiterunTower.esp
iHUD.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp
RealisticWaterTwo.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Falskaar.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Falskaar.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Wyrmstooth.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Wyrmstooth.esp
Underwater Visibility Fix LE - RW2.esp
AOS2_RealisticWaterTwo Patch.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
LearnAlchemyFromRecipes.esp

 

And yeah, that's a lot of plugins, but 2/3 of the load order is just stuff for LotD! And I know that, because I decided to disable all their esps once in the right panel of MO just to see how many there were. My total list of plugins dropped to 50 something from its full 157.

 

I have no idea why this order would be causing so much script lag. Most of the scripts these mods contains just alter leveled lists, so they shouldn't be running all the time. I hear Undeath has really ineffecient scripts running all the time, but I'm using the new 'remastered' version! Unless that one has the same issue too. Besides, I have run the old version in the past and never had issues like this. Honestly, I think most of the scripts in my 'virtual' data folder are just there for the mcms. Others are for quests that I haven't even started yet!

 

As for scripts that are being overwritten, the only ones that are being displayed is one for LotD and DawnguardEpilogue. Two are are Timing is Everything scripts being overwritten by the FISS settings I have saved (no idea why it works that way, but its certainly never given me this issue in the past).

 

edit: Regarding save game bloat, I did enable some feature in an INI somewhere that's supposed to fix that. I was warned that save game bloat may be a problem, since the playthrough will be so long. Could that be causing the issue? Would I be better off if I turned that off? Sadly, I can't remember what setting that was now or where it was, even though I just turned it on less than a week ago.

Edited March 5, 2023 by InDarkestNight

[scorrp10]

I suppose you mean 12MB, not 12K. And yeah, 12M is about right. But blown up save file is just one potential side effect.

Posting load orders in general, is IMHO, useless. No one will go like - oh mod #59 adds a trapdoor on this island, and mod #211 adds a dirt pile in same spot, hiding the trapdoor'.

You got a problem area - use CK to determine precisely which cell it is, then use xEdit to find all mods overloading that cell, then you can start figuring out how to fix it.

Issues with scripts conflicts/overloads can be a total nightmare to crack, too.

[InDarkestNight]

Well, is there anyway I can minimize my script load? Most of the mods I have I need to run because LotD has displays for them. Do scripts for MCMs matter? Thinking about it, I sorta suspect that Unique Treasures may have scripts running all the time, because it has an option in the MCM where you can set some of the objects it places in certain buildings to be owned by whoever lives there. Turning on enables the ownership immedietly! There's no load time like immersive armors has. This makes me think it may have scripts running all the time.

 

If it helps, here's the list of mods MO is telling me has loose scripts:

 

Aetherium Armor and Swords Compilation

Clothing and Clutter Fixes (not necessary)

Dawnguard and Clan Volkihar Epilogues

LotD Imperial and Leather Armor display (adds displays, though not really an official mod)

Dragon Remains (not necessary)

Durneviir Resurrected (not necessary)

Elemental Dragons

FISS

Kohnarik's Accoutrements

Legacy of the Dragonborn+various patches

MFG Console (not necessary)

Modern Brawl Bug Fix (not necessary, though a bug fix)

More Interesting Loot

New Treasure Hunt

Papyrus Extender (part of skse, it IS required for a lot of the mods)

Relationship Dialogue Overhaul (not necessary)

More skse stuff

Thane Weapons Reborn

Timing is Everthing (not really required, though it does help get certain items before they're disabled due to automatic quests)

Violent Alduin (not required, it just puts Alduin in line with the dragons from Elemental Dragons, I think its incorporated into the SE version of ED in fact)

Whiterun Tower Doesn't Start Broken (not necessary)

 

Yeah, I have a decent number of mods that don't directly have anything to do with the museum, but would removing them really make much of a difference? As I said, most of the scripts are for mcms (such as with Timing is Everything). Do I need to just start over after disabling all the unnecessary stuff and see if I can actually get further without having to deal with relentless freezes? The mods I need for LotD make up the majority of the scripts, so it may be futile.

[scorrp10]

MCM scipt instances are generally just loaded in memory, but do not actually consume any CPU cycles - unless you are actually go into one (then it needs to be rendered) and change something in it - which then needs to run whatever code is attached to that option. Which can be just about anything, from a single variable change to massive sweeping changes involving thousands of objects.

 

For all you know, your problem might be not script-related at all. I.e. if some bunny nearby is trying run from bush A to bush B, and some mod messed with area's NavMesh , the engine might go into infinite loop trying to calculate a valid path for the bunny.

[InDarkestNight]

What else could it be then? Why does my game freeze immeditely if I try to use Elephant's Latency Tester? Also, why does it only happen when I'm in the overworld, completely regardless of where it is? More confusingly, why does saving the game every few seconds stop this from happening? If I do that, I can literally walk circles around the map all I want. I don't, I can hardly walk 20 feet without a freeze. What can saving the game forestall? It makes no sense. I never freeze in combat either, in fact it seems to forestall freezes.

 

This makes no sense and I'm sick of it. Is it a script issue? Is it something else? My game is forever unplayable. I don't even know why I keep asking for help here. The game straight doesn't work for me anymore, so why do I keep trying? Its nothing but a fool's errand to keep this game stable and moddable. Like I said, I need to just give up and accept the overwhelmingly obvious reality that SKYRIM IS DEAD.

[anjenthedog]

 

What else could it be then? Why does my game freeze immediately if I try to use Elephant's Latency Tester?

 

unlikely as I'm sure it is, maybe you accidentally installed the wrong version (ie LE + SE ELT or SE + LE ELT)

 

I don't know if it'd pass deployment or not, but I've accidentally installed a few LE mods in the past and the game didn't notice until I CTD'd left and right or the game went bonkers with bizarre glitches.