Body Modification and seeming limits

[cevune]

I've always quite like the glamour portraits people have done in Skyrim, but any time before that I tried to get into body modding, the process was so complex and interwoven that I just gave up and ran around as a default preset with Skyhair or something along those lines. I recently started playing Skyrim again and took a stab at body modification. And while it's generally going better than before, I'm running into a few issues and want to check my understanding as well explore some concepts (assuming my understanding is correct)

 

Acronyms!

CBBE, 3BBB, UUNP, oh my!. This is possibly my first misconception, but I notice a large amount of body presets which require some network of dependencies between multiple acronym mods. Personally I went with CBBE because it's what I saw the most, but much like ECE and RaceMenu, is it safe to say these are separation attempts to create similar functionality between "competitor" mods for lack of a better term?

 

Skins!

Another thing I've noticed is that most skin mods seems to overwrite the base skin file. Meaning you have to select whether you want an ultra-ripped barbarian skin, or a dainty noble-lady's skin, and anywhere in between, but whatever you choose, you're stuck with that skin for every character. Since they seem to overwrite the same core file and not expand an importable list (the way hair styles and even Racemenu presets seem to), you're essentially stuck with one skin rather than an array of high detailed Skin options for various types of characters. Is that correct?

 

Now to get into the weeds of something else, I've been messing with Bodyslide, and it seems as though its function is to overwrite the default proportions/skeleton of the player model (possibly NPC models too?) and clothing you would wear. Is that true? And an extension there, what is the difference between the functionality of Bodyslide, versus the Racemenu CBBE sliders? They seem to perform a similar function, other than Bodyslide being a tool used prior to initializing the game, and the RM-CBBE sliders being done at run-time.

With that said what are the capabilities/limitations, advantages/disadvantages of Bodyslide versus CBBE sliders for body modification? Bodyslide seems to be the industry standard (for lack of a better term), but I'm a little confused as to why CBBE + racemenu isn't more widely adopted since it can be tweaked while in game? Is it just the lack of ability to import/export presets (in which case, I wonder why that isn't also an option in the mod)? Or does CBBE also lack the ability to affect the deformation of clothing?

 

Why am I asking?

Well more or less for my own benefit I suppose. I like to play Skyrim with multiple diverse characters, both aesthetically and functionally. So the notion of being stuck to one catch-all body type, a single skin texture, as well as needing to manage about 50 mods worth of tools to make different looks possible, while only making one of those looks possible at a time, is a bit of a nightmare.

 

Ideals:

So essentially what I'm wondering: Is it possible to replicate the functionality of BodySlide with the CBBE race menu sliders, such that I can have a burly amazoness on one save, and a dainty K-pop looking mage on another? Are skins limited to one at a time, or is there a way to import specific skin textures so Ms.Amazonness can get a veiney, muscular body, while the dainty mage can have a smooth look to her skin?

Is there a way to have broader diversity between my characters in terms of skin texture and body shape, or am I more or less stuck with picking one for each and trying to make it a one-size-fits-all base for every character I create?

 

And just open season on any body modification tips/tricks you guys have, since you probably see what I'm all about in this regard. Things to avoid, things to do, in order to have a lot of different options at my fingertips when it comes to building a characters body. Maybe I'm just missing an "import CBBE slider" plugin buried somewhere on nexus, and maybe there is a mod already that manages skin textures as a list you can select through or something along those lines. Essentially anyone with knowledge on the subject of body modification (especially when it comes to having more than one character that are wildly different), feel free to share the knowledge, please.

[IsharaMeradin]

All armor, clothing and the base body have two sets of meshes, smallest size and largest size, as well as one set of texture files. The game creates a blend of the two sizes for each of the available weight slider settings. We can replace the meshes used by the body and then all races will have their base body changed accordingly including Khajiit and Argonian. But if the meshes used have a different poly count or texture UV mapping, then the texture must be changed to match (even those used by Khajiit and Argonian). That is just the body. Armor and clothing unless changed will still use stock meshes and textures. This can cause a noticeable change in body shape as the items are equipped and removed. Thus replacers of a matching body shape need to be used. Thus BodySlide was developed. After initially replacing the stock meshes with BodySlide compatible ones, the user can create the shape of the body they want and then transfer that to the compatible armor and clothing meshes.

 

Racemenu changes the appearance of the player character and may not affect armor and clothing when equipped.

 

There were mods on the 32 bit version that did their best to offer a framework for different bodies per race. But the limitation on gear meshes meant that some races could not wear certain gear without their bodies having a noticeable change in shape. Also the head is a different setup and requires that every body mesh and texture combo in use be able to match. Which puts a damper on having radically different types of bodies by race.

 

There is a form list in use that holds a reference to the body's skin texture set. A long time ago, I tested this form list by adding 9 additional entries with each one using a skin texture with a different tattoo design. In game, each weight slider setting had its own skin. Thus using this form list, one could set up a means of going from a non muscular build to a muscular one depending upon the weight slider setting. The form list used by NakedTorso (the editor ID for the human races' body armor addon record) is SkinFemaleHumanBody [FLST:0007BBB2] and SkinMaleHumanBody [FLST:0007BBB1].

 

If you use a mod manager with a profile system, you can set each profile to have specific different shapes by modding each profile differently. That is a lot of work, yet doable.

[cevune]

Thank you for the information there. It did help me understand how things are implemented a bit better. Also the tip on that Form List that references a texture set is very interesting and something I'll continue to look into if nothing else comes up.

 

As for the first half, in terms of BodySlide and body shapes, I found the mod OBodyNG, which pretty much works for what I was trying to get. Easy enough to hit F10 and swap to the bodyslide preset that matches the character. I actually just got it up and running and decided to see if this thread had developed at all to give it a mention lol

 

I thought about using separate profiles, but that is... far too much work for what it achieves. I'd honestly prefer dusting off my programming skills and trying to mod a solution myself. At least the effort would then go into something I could share and potentially plug a hole I see somewhere haha.

 

That said, I've got body type figured out, if I can get the ability to swap between skin textures on the fly, I think everything I was approaching in this will be tackled. Outside of the pros/cons of various body enhancements like CBBE, BHUNP, etc. But that's more of a "which is better, and why do you think so" kind of thing, and slightly less technical

[cevune]

Another update, funny enough while browsing I saw this Mod was uploaded the day after I posted this topic. SynthEBD https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/88242

I'll probably try fiddling with this and see if it'll provide the multi-skin functionality I'm looking for