Tired of Vanilla

[FMod]

FMod, I'm really confused about the value of certain components over others. All the reading I've done previously suggested the more VRAM the better.

 

Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at is I bet most machines are running traditional hard drives over SSD's so I can't imagine that it is all that awful. Having said that, I would prefer the SSD.

While more VRAM isn't going to be worse than less, it's not really important and there are very few cases where the difference will even exist, much less be felt.

 

Just because a lot of machines run HDD doesn't mean it makes little difference. I can understand going with a more powerful GPU over a SSD for strictly a gamer that's got to max out their fps and doesn't care that their system will take longer to boot and load the game. For your purposes it's a no-brainer.

 

 

I still don't really understand Steam. I mean I get the concept but not the details in using it. So you purchase your game from Steam, download it to your system. If for some reason your files get corrupted or your disk goes bad are you allowed to retrieve a copy from Steam at no cost or do you have to back up your downloaded version at home? Once the game is loaded on your system do you have to have a live connection to play?

Steam is a DRM, make no mistake, it's just one that doesn't start out by treating every customer like a criminal. There is a number of similar systems with their own advantages, Steam's just the most popular.

 

Once you buy a game on Steam, it's yours to download as many times as you wish, for any OS it supports, on any number of computers. You can delete any non-modded game if you need the space and reinstall it at any later point.

 

The only limitation is that one Steam account can only be in online mode on one machine at a time. There is an offline mode, useful if you don't have an internet connection at the moment, and single player games can be run in it.

 

 

 

I followed the link to Thor.'s thread with the compact towers and here is what I put together.

Forgot the motherboard. Also, I think the PSU might not fit in the case.

 

mini-ITX builds are not for the beginner. You'd be better served by mATX, which offers a little more room. It's larger, but the whole point of a PC build over a Mac is that you aren't constrained by the small case and special parts for it.

 

The pricing on baseline iMac is all right considering you get a good display to go with it all. Where the real difference comes is 1) options and 2) upgrades. A PC can be kept current for years, updating it bit by bit. Once something in your imac gets old, all you can do is get a new one, even if it has the exact same display and body and drive and memory. This is why you might switch, not for the properties of the original build.

[wismas]

HA! I actually woke up at 5am today and realized I didn't include the motherboard. I am totally obssessing over this now.

 

I don't need that particular Node case, I mean I'm not attached to it. I just need a case I can sit horizontally rather than vertically. The space in the TV room is 22" wide x 15" high x 16" deep if I remove the interior shelf, which currently holds the Xbox. I've been browsing NewEgg and I can't seem to find a case that I can lay down or one that is decent and purpose built for a horizontal orientation. I'm sure I'm just missing something obvious. Does the "m" in mATX stand for mid or mini??

[hoofhearted4]

Ill just add to what FMod said, more to just add a voice that agrees with him.

 

more VRAM isnt bad. youll never say to yourself "damn i shouldnt have gotten 4gb vs 2gb". however, the situations in which you use 4gb are few and far between really. you have to do some heavy heavy modding, with high texture packs and then some to use that up. most setups that use 4gb cards are multi monitor setups. conversely, having an SSD over an HDD is a huge difference. you will never say to yourself "damn im so glad i didnt get an SSD" "or i wish i had just gotten an HDD" and the situations where you will use the speed of an SSD is, well, in every day use. putting games on it dont do too much. causes them to load faster, and the in game loading times sometimes drop, but as far as performance, it doesnt do anything. but the speed of your overall systems is greatly increased. boot up and shut down times, application launching, load times, etc. all boosted by a large amount. so if your choice is the extra VRAM you probably wont use, or the SSD upgrade that you obviously will use, grab the SSD.

 

As far as Steam goes, its not a one time thing. the digital game gets put into a library, and you are free to download it, uninstall it, reinstall it, at any time for any reason as many times as you want. so yes if your files get corrupted, you can do what you need to do and just reinstall the game, or if you run out of space and want to remove a game for the time being, you can do that too. The only scarey thing about Steam really, is if it ever gets shut down or anything, all those games are gone, but i dont see that happening. but there are no disks. some games you buy physically, like Fallout New Vegas (i think) require you to have Steam. i think at that point you just download it through Steam and you no longer need the disk. I have FONV disk, and i dont need it to play, as i have it in my Steam Library, so im assuming thats what happened, but its been awhile lol.

[wismas]

Thanks again hoof and FMod. You've convinced me that the SSD is more important than the upgraded card.

 

I'm still debating the iMac vs. the build-my-own but we don't need to belabor that anymore in this thread. I'm in contact with New Egg right now to see if they can help me sort my case needs and proper component choices. Just need to find a case I can lay down or sit horizontally. It looks like the HTPC cases do that and they seem plenty large.

[hoofhearted4]

honestly, to me, it seems like the iMac would be better choice. i mean, i love my PC gaming, but if you already use a Mac, and use it for work and such i couldnt genuinely suggest you to completely forgo MAc just to get a PC. yes PC is cheaper, and can handle a wider variety of games natively but Mac is getting there, its getting better. if you prefer a Mac and use it for work and need it, just get it.

 

 

on the earlier mention of Win 7 vs Win 8. i have Win 8 on a VM on my PC so i can mess with it. and i hate it. its such a crap design. works alright on a tablet or touch screen, but with a mouse, i dont like it. im still not too familiar with it, but i still have a hard time finding things without the Start Menu and stuff at my disposal. my GF, who mostly just uses her iphone as her primary source of computer, also hated Win 8. we were casually looking at laptops yesterday at Best Buy, and they all have Win 8 now. and she was trying to just mess with them, browse the web, and couldnt figure out who to get there, or what happened when it minimized and etc. so i still highly recommend Win 7. if you ever start looking up tutorials for mods or really anything, most will be for Win 7. which will make it easier when trying to trouble shoot if you ever need to for anything.

[FMod]

I'm still debating the iMac vs. the build-my-own but we don't need to belabor that anymore in this thread.

Put short, you're currently in a state of vendor lock-in. It's when the originally chosen vendor is no longer optimal, but the cost of switching is higher than that of staying.

 

Vendor lock-in is a lose-lose situation: either you break the lock and incur the associated costs or you don't but stay committed to unknown future costs.

 

In this case, you need to decide whether you want to stay with Macs for the foreseeable future or not. If you are likely to consider eventually moving to PC as your primary machine, the sooner you break the lock, the lower the cost. If you don't see yourself doing that, and are satisfied with Macs other than for gaming, IDK if it's worth that.

 

Unfortunately Apple doesn't seem to have any plans to offer MacOS standalone or make a real Mac Pro; the new one is an impractical halo product with a very narrow practical niche.

 

It really comes down to whether you intend to have uses other than gaming for the PC you'd build.

 

 

As far as Steam goes, its not a one time thing. the digital game gets put into a library, and you are free to download it, uninstall it, reinstall it, at any time for any reason as many times as you want.

Essentially, it's the same system as Play Market or App Store.

With two differences that 1) Steam doesn't support simultaneous log-in on multiple devices (bad), 2) Steam is cross-platform as long as the products are (good).

 

 

yes PC is cheaper, and can handle a wider variety of games natively but Mac is getting there, its getting better.

Have to disagree on the "getting better" part. It's still OK but getting worse.

 

- Apple is losing its market position. Their smartphones are now a footnote to Samsung; Macbooks have been overshadowed by ultrabooks. These are just halo segments, but the tail will follow. This means MacOS won't be going mainstream anytime soon and not even Win8's fiasco can help it.

- Apple computers are getting worse. From older iMacs where the screen was held by magnets and Mac Pros that were configurable PCs inside we've come to imac that's all glued together and Mac Pro that's built to be a curio.

- Displays are where they should be. You won't need to upgrade your 27" display, but you'll be forced to replace it if you need to upgrade your iMac. You will need to upgrade your imac.

 

All of these factors combined mean Apple isn't looking anywhere as good as it did say 5 years go. If you were to build a machine from scratch, even specifically for graphics design, today, the better choice is PC - you can have the same software, but for a safe choice OS and in an upgradeable shell. The only reason to stay with Mac is when Mac version licenses won't transfer to a Windows version, which is a big deal.

Edited December 31, 2013 by FMod

[hoofhearted4]

by getting better i meant that more games were being supported by it or were supporting Mac.

[Werne]

 

I'm still debating the iMac vs. the build-my-own but we don't need to belabor that anymore in this thread.

Put short, you're currently in a state of vendor lock-in. It's when the originally chosen vendor is no longer optimal, but the cost of switching is higher than that of staying.

 

Vendor lock-in is a lose-lose situation: either you break the lock and incur the associated costs or you don't but stay committed to unknown future costs.

 

In this case, you need to decide whether you want to stay with Macs for the foreseeable future or not. If you are likely to consider eventually moving to PC as your primary machine, the sooner you break the lock, the lower the cost. If you don't see yourself doing that, and are satisfied with Macs other than for gaming, IDK if it's worth that.

 

Unfortunately Apple doesn't seem to have any plans to offer MacOS standalone or make a real Mac Pro; the new one is an impractical halo product with a very narrow practical niche.

 

It really comes down to whether you intend to have uses other than gaming for the PC you'd build.

Actually, you can download OS X install media from the app store if you already own a Mac (I know you could back in Snow Leopard) that can install OS X onto any machine that has it's hardware supported by the OS. Seeing as how iMac basically has PC components inside it since Apple switched from PowerPC architecture to x86, all you need to do is find the right hardware for a standard PC and slap the Mac's OS on it. Then you have a PC and a Mac, not as fancy-looking but it costs a lot less.

 

Finding the right components may be a pain in the ass though, Macs don't have a very wide range of hardware built into them. :confused:

 

 

 

@wismas Small form-factor builds are not for beginners, as FMod already mentioned. One small mistake in space management and you're left with components that can't fit inside. Plus, you need to be careful when you pick components that do fit, the machine needs airflow so if you mess up on push-pull or buy a part that restricts airflow, your CPU and/or graphics card will suffocate on their own hot air.

 

But if you're serious about making a small machine, here's a suggestion - first choose the case, then choose the components that go inside, same thing I told Thor in that thread you linked a page or two back. Once you find out case specs and size restrictions you can plan how the parts will be laid out, how large the components can be, where will the cabling go, etc. Small builds are also more expensive solutions cause you mostly need different parts than you would in a tower, like a modular PSU, low-profile CPU coolers, shorter graphics cards (short cards usually go in really tiny builds), etc.

 

That's why people usually use a standard tower, no size restrictions, no airflow hindrance due to component size and good cable management. Some prefer small cases and I've built a few for sale, they are great when it comes to space saving and can be built to offer the same performance and airflow as a tower, though I personally don't find them particularly interesting or great (mostly since it's a pain in the ass to assemble something that small).

Edited December 31, 2013 by Werne

[hoofhearted4]

Hackintosh

[wismas]

Sorry about not responding earlier. Can't seem to find the button to have notifications sent to my email when folks reply to threads (I just found it!).

 

I've read through the latest posts and let me clear up some info.

 

1. I won't being giving up my Mac environment as my main work/personal computer. I'm happy as a pig in slop using OSX.

 

2. If I build a PC it will be strictly for gaming and I will keep on with my old iMac. As it is a computer I may find more uses for it in the future but it's mission is gaming.

 

3. I looked into the Hackintosh solution and I won't be trying that.

 

__________________________

 

Werne, I don't want to build a gaming PC with a small case and I won't. Here is the dilemma. The only place I can fit a gaming PC is under the TV in the TV stand. That area has a space that is 22" wide x 15" high x 17" deep. I need a case that will fit in that space. While snooping around on New Egg I found a class of cases they call HTPC or home theater personal computer case. These seem quite large.

 

When it comes down to cost it turning out to be somewhat of a wash. I increased my budget to $1200 for a gaming PC. While a new iMac will cost $2200 with proper upgrades I now have a buyer for my old Mac and I will get $900 for that. Which still makes the Apple route a bit more pricey but not by too much.

 

So that is where everything stands today.

Edited January 2, 2014 by wismas