Number of Mods I Should Have in Game

[IndigoSkies]

So.. I've been playing Skyrim on the X-box 360 for a long time now. I know how to play the game so I'm not clueless to it. I got Skyrim for the PC and I would love to mod it but I would like to get a number of how many mods you should have in the game. 5-10? 15-20? I don't want to overload on mods because I want to avoid any complications. I would be very appreciative of any feedback. Thank you!

[Oubliette]

As a newbie you should start with 1.

 

Seriously. Most people see mods and start adding hundreds of mods to their systems without any proper idea of problem solving or even how to install properly - then they run into problems (they always run into problems) and don't even know how to properly ask for help because they have no idea what they did in the first place.

 

So I recommend installing one mod. I also recommend it being a mesh or texture replacer. Those are the easiest mods to install and test quickly. I'd also recommend installing it by hand and not with NMM because you're going to need to know where everything goes for later problem solving purposes. Pick something it's easy to get rid of if you don't like it (body mods are super easy to test and remove, it's just a matter of removing their specific meshes and textures).

 

Then I recommend downloading and installing the major tools: NMM, Tes5edit and Wrye Mash/Bash/Smash (same program, slightly different name for each game that they've supported since then, just search for Wrye) and BOSS. Learn how to use them and get comfortable with them - you'll definitely need them.

 

Last but not least - all Bethesda's moddable games can support up to 255 mods all total. Trust me, that number seems like a lot now but it's not when you really get started, thanks to merging I typically run 4-500 mods at a time in my games but I've been doing this since 03 so I know what I'm doing. Please trust me when I say start slow with a very firm foundation and build from there.

 

Good luck :smile:

Edited December 26, 2013 by Oubliette

[Shadeybladey]

Every thing Oubliette says is correct. You cannot just install mods willy-nilly, especially from Steam Workshop, without having the correct load order, avoiding incompatibilities, clashes, old scripts, several mods which overlap and do similar things in the same way etc.

 

It also depends on what your system can handle.

 

I have 195 mods, 19 non-esp and 176 with esp or esp plus bsa. The game is smooth as silk, but I've had 21 months experience of getting it like that.

 

I only have one disagreement with Oubliette; some mods are SO essential, they should be part of every game as bug fixes.

 

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp

Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp

Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp

SkyUI.esp - essential for Olde Tyme keyboard and mouse players like me - unless you have a console controller and are used to the interface (needed for MCM, though)

Run For Your Lives.esp - stops every town becoming a ghost town due to Beth's stupidity

When Vampires Attack.esp - stops every town becoming a ghost town due to Beth's stupidity

The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp - lets you do the right thing (IF you want to), because Beth's stupidity railroaded you like a chump

World_Map_Height_Pitch_Tweak_250.esp - allows you to set the map to look down at 90º again.

I could recommend 100 mods without hesitation, but the above are really essential bug fixes and cannot be messed up as long as you use BOSS and have the World Map Height Tweak last in order.

Others I would never play without:

HighResTexturePack01.esp - free from Beth via Steam

HighResTexturePack02.esp - free from Beth via Steam

HighResTexturePack03.esp - free from Beth via Steam

Atlas Map Markers.esp

Atlas Blackreach.esp

Atlas Dawnguard.esp

Atlas Dragonborn.esp

 

 

Of course, only use the patches and mods for the DLC you actually have.

 

There are another 94 mods I consider essential (for me), but those above in blue are REALLY needed for everyone in my opinion. They are tried and tested, well written, well maintained by talented modders or teams of modders and you'd have to make a real special effort to get them to mess up your game.

 

Everything Oubliette said is correct when you are trying out new mods for yourself in a Pick 'n' Mix, Mix and Match manner, but that needs experience and patience as it is SO easy to screw up.

 

But the mods above in blue are totally safe, updated and essential.

 

~.~

[Fistandilius]

Every thing Oubliette says is correct. You cannot just install mods willy-nilly, especially from Steam Workshop, without having the correct load order, avoiding incompatibilities, clashes, old scripts, several mods which overlap and do similar things in the same way etc.

 

This is the second post I've seen from you this morning putting down steam's mods. I don't get it. I have never seen one that wasn't in .bsa or .esm/.esp format and that's about as simple as it gets for installing or uninstalling a mod. Unless it's just because of the types of mods I use. What is your issue with steam?

[Shadeybladey]

 

Every thing Oubliette says is correct. You cannot just install mods willy-nilly, especially from Steam Workshop, without having the correct load order, avoiding incompatibilities, clashes, old scripts, several mods which overlap and do similar things in the same way etc.

 

This is the second post I've seen from you this morning putting down steam's mods. I don't get it. I have never seen one that wasn't in .bsa or .esm/.esp format and that's about as simple as it gets for installing or uninstalling a mod. Unless it's just because of the types of mods I use. What is your issue with steam?

 

 

 

It's not the mods on Steam, it is Steam Workshop and they way it creates the impression all you have to do is subscribe and that's it. I have touched on some of the other issues it causes in the other thread.

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1290981-am-i-able-to-keep-a-vanilla-backup-or-install-to-second-location/?p=10832363

 

 

~.~

[ripple]

The Workshop treats users like morons. It automates the updating of mods and (from what I hear, but never been able to verify myself) automatically deletes mods from your load order if a mod has been removed from the Workshop (a great way to damage your save game). It's not a real 'mod manager' but it pretends to be, and many Workshop users do not bother learning the basics of managing their load order as a result. I can go on as well, but Shadey covered most of the the issues. I advise users to stay away from the Workshop as well. If you must download a Workshop exclusive mod, I advise that after downloading, repackage the mod into an archive, unsubscribe the mod from the Workshop, then reinstall the repackaged version of the mod via a real mod manager, like NMM or the Mod Organizer. This way, you, not the Workshop, has control over your load order.

Edited December 26, 2013 by ripple

[Fistandilius]

The Workshop treats users like morons. It automates the updating of mods and (from what I hear, but never been able to verify myself) automatically deletes mods from your load order if a mod has been removed from the Workshop (a great way to damage your save game). It's not a real 'mod manager' but it pretends to be, and many Workshop users do not bother learning the basics of managing their load order as a result. I can go on as well, but Shadey covered most of the the issues. I advise users to stay away from the Workshop as well. If you must download a Workshop exclusive mod, I advise that after downloading, repackage the mod into an archive, unsubscribe the mod from the Workshop, then reinstall the repackaged version of the mod via a real mod manager, like NMM or the Mod Organizer. This way, you, not the Workshop, has control over your load order.

 

Like I said in the other thread. It's just a tool. If you know how it works, you can use it like any other. And it absolutely simplifies the process for people who don't really understand mods, which is what really is bad about it. The problem isn't steam, it's pure ignorance of users. Things like NMM and boss are created to hold people's hands when they want to run 100 mods.

 

Which is exactly what steam does NOT do is hold your hand. It simply loads the mods and you're responsible for your own load order.

 

As far as updating the mods, it's just as bad when an author doesn't update his or her mod and then it became obsolete due to DLC's, which is exactly why I was an advocate for not installing mods until the game was complete.

[ripple]

 

The Workshop treats users like morons. It automates the updating of mods and (from what I hear, but never been able to verify myself) automatically deletes mods from your load order if a mod has been removed from the Workshop (a great way to damage your save game). It's not a real 'mod manager' but it pretends to be, and many Workshop users do not bother learning the basics of managing their load order as a result. I can go on as well, but Shadey covered most of the the issues. I advise users to stay away from the Workshop as well. If you must download a Workshop exclusive mod, I advise that after downloading, repackage the mod into an archive, unsubscribe the mod from the Workshop, then reinstall the repackaged version of the mod via a real mod manager, like NMM or the Mod Organizer. This way, you, not the Workshop, has control over your load order.

 

Like I said in the other thread. It's just a tool. If you know how it works, you can use it like any other. And it absolutely simplifies the process for people who don't really understand mods, which is what really is bad about it. The problem isn't steam, it's pure ignorance of users. Things like NMM and boss are created to hold people's hands when they want to run 100 mods.

 

Which is exactly what steam does NOT do is hold your hand. It simply loads the mods and you're responsible for your own load order.

 

As far as updating the mods, it's just as bad when an author doesn't update his or her mod and then it became obsolete due to DLC's, which is exactly why I was an advocate for not installing mods until the game was complete.

 

If by 'tool' you mean the Workshop is 'dumb', rather than a useful instrument, then yes, it is. It's not that the Workshop does not encourage people to learn how to manage their load orders, but that it actually -discourages- users from trying to do so.

 

If I download a Skyrim mod from any site -except- the Steam Workshop, I can open up the archive and check what's inside -before- I install the mod. Even if the mod resource files are compressed into a BSA rather than in loose files format, I can use a BSA browser to check out the contents. I can see the directory structure. I can determine whether the mod contains scripts, find out if there are appropriate facegen files if it adds NPCs, or look through the esp records to see what the mod adds or edits, as well as verify its quality. In short, I can learn what a mod does -before- it goes into my load order. The Workshop, on the other hand, automatically dumps subscribed mods' contents into the mess of the game data folder and prevents you from examining the contents of a mod -prior- to the mod installation.

 

-All- methods of Skyrim mod installation, from manual to MO, have to contend with user 'ignorance', not just the Workshop. The workshop is not 'special' in that regard. What is 'special' about the Workshop is that it exacerbates and encourages ignorance of users. There is absolutely no reason why Workshop users are not allowed to decide when and whether if they want to update mods, rather than have it forced on them. I won't bother going into the many Workshop mod hosting limitations that has deterred some mod authors from hosting their mods there altogether.

 

As far as updating the mods, it's just as bad when an author doesn't update his or her mod and then it became obsolete due to DLC's, which is exactly why I was an advocate for not installing mods until the game was complete.

 

I completely fail to see the relevance of this. The Workshop is not some magical machine that automatically update mods for authors. Just because a mod is hosted on the Workshop does not mean it is automatically compatible with all the DLCs, or that authors who host mods on the Workshop never disappear. I find it rather silly anyone would actually "advocate" not installing any mods until the game was 'complete' (which I interpret to mean all possible DLCs have been released and no further official patches would be forthcoming), given that the vast majority of Skyrimn mods are unaffected by the DLCs and do not require compatibilty updates or patches. If most mod users actually followed that advice, the Skyrim modding community would not be what it is today.

 

Also, BOSS is not a tool that 'holds you hand', even if there are users who mistakenly think it is. These are the users who do not read the BOSS log, do not pay attention to BOSS error messages, and do nothing when BOSS generates a log containing plugins it does not recognize. BOSS just tells you that there are things you need to attend to in your load order. The rest is up to you. Saying BOSS 'holds your hand' is like saying Wrye Bash is a tool that 'holds your hand' for users who don't want to sinks hours and days manually making their own leveled list compatibility patches using TES5Edit.

Edited December 26, 2013 by ripple

[Fistandilius]

I don't know what happened here. Incomplete post. Can be deleted.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Fistandilius

[Fistandilius]

 

If by 'tool' you mean the Workshop is 'dumb', rather than a useful instrument, then yes, it is. It's not that the Workshop does not encourage people to learn how to manage their load orders, but that it actually -discourages- users from trying to do so.

 

It does no such thing. It's a simple tool to browse and download mods. If you buy a radio at best buy and they tell you it has free installation, that doesn't mean you're obligated to use it the way they installed it, or use it at all. The difference is, the radio probably comes with a warranty, whereas your video game does not. Because modding is a allowed and encouraged, not technically supported. Two different things.

 

 

If I download a Skyrim mod from any site -except- the Steam Workshop, I can open up the archive and check what's inside -before- I install the mod. Even if the mod resource files are compressed into a BSA rather than in loose files format, I can use a BSA browser to check out the contents. I can see the directory structure. I can determine whether the mod contains scripts, find out if there are appropriate facegen files if it adds NPCs, or look through the esp records to see what the mod adds or edits, as well as verify its quality. In short, I can learn what a mod does -before- it goes into my load order. The Workshop, on the other hand, automatically dumps subscribed mods' contents into the mess of the game data folder and prevents you from examining the contents of a mod -prior- to the mod installation.

 

The only difference between Steam and Nexus, is when you download something from Nexus it puts it in a special directory. Steam puts it in the data directory. That is the ONLY difference. Skyrim is what loads the mods (not steam) into your data list. Anything put in the data directory is loaded into your data list if it is an esp, esm, or bsa.

 

Also, you keep pointing out load order like you're obligated to run anything in your load order. You subscribe to it. You start Skyrim. It checks your subscriptions. Downloads the mod. You have a choice at this point to view your data list. You don't have to run the game. You can uncheck it. You can exit the loader. You can view the download.

 

 

-All- methods of Skyrim mod installation, from manual to MO, have to contend with user 'ignorance', not just the Workshop. The workshop is not 'special' in that regard. What is 'special' about the Workshop is that it exacerbates and encourages ignorance of users. There is absolutely no reason why Workshop users are not allowed to decide when and whether if they want to update mods, rather than have it forced on them. I won't bother going into the many Workshop mod hosting limitations that has deterred some mod authors from hosting their mods there altogether.

 

You are allowed to decide whether or not you want to update the mod. That's why you have an option to unsubscribe to the mod. And I would argue that steam only slightly more encourages ignorance than NMM. Anyone who chooses to not be ignorant should be manually installing their mods and investigating them to see how they work.

 

 

I completely fail to see the relevance of this. The Workshop is not some magical machine that automatically update mods for authors. Just because a mod is hosted on the Workshop does not mean it is automatically compatible with all the DLCs, or that authors who host mods on the Workshop never disappear.

 

You're right. Just because a mod is hosted on the workshop does not mean it's compatible or that the authors don't disappear. But that works both ways. Just because a mod is hosted doesn't mean an author will never update it.

 

 

I find it rather silly anyone would actually "advocate" not installing any mods until the game was 'complete' (which I interpret to mean all possible DLCs have been released and no further official patches would be forthcoming), given that the vast majority of Skyrimn mods are unaffected by the DLCs and do not require compatibilty updates or patches. If most mod users actually followed that advice, the Skyrim modding community would not be what it is today.

 

Those are opinions. Unless you have actual numbers to show which mods require the dlc's vs which don't? And you certainly can't prove that the modding community would suffer by waiting until the game is complete to mod. I would argue that it would be improved because there wouldn't be so much time wasted on methods that are no longer valid when the DLC's come out. Look at some popular mods and tools out there that no longer work. NPC editor. UFO is buggy as hell. Most of the ones that ARE still working are the ones that have been updated time and time again or else were pretty simple to begin with. And you can't even argue that fact because a simple search through the old posts in Nexus will point out all the hell raising by users whose games were "ruined" when the DLC's came down because their mods didn't work anymore.

 

 

Also, BOSS is not a tool that 'holds you hand', even if there are users who mistakenly think it is. These are the users who do not read the BOSS log, do not pay attention to BOSS error messages, and do nothing when BOSS generates a log containing plugins it does not recognize. BOSS just tells you that there are things you need to attend to in your load order. The rest is up to you. Saying BOSS 'holds your hand' is like saying Wrye Bash is a tool that 'holds your hand' for users who don't want to sinks hours and days manually making their own leveled list compatibility patches using TES5Edit.

 

You seem to have arbitrarily taken that last bit personally. But it's ironic that you argue that Boss is a tool that needs to be monitored in order for you to use it properly and yet you argue that Steam sucks because you have to monitor what it does. :wallbash: