SCOLs of static objects have physics in the CK

[84Cronos]

I'm currently adding collision to some meshes from the base game which I cut into different pieces in blender or to other objects. I'm using Nifskope's convex shape system to create the collision, since I don't have access to 3dsmax. I've the correct BSX flags and I chose the correct material and mass(120) under the rigid body info, then I sanitize everything and run it through Elric. After that I import it into my esp and everything works 100% fine. The meshes do have their proper static collision in the CK as well as in game - nothing out of the ordinary. However, as soon as my own objects become part of a SCOL, that SCOL somehow starts behaving like a movable static in the CK. It's extremely annoying and I've zero clue what's causing this. There should be no flag or data that should allow this behavior. It makes creating more custom worldspaces impossible for me since I heavily rely on SCOLs.

 

Has anybody ever encountered something similar and solved the issue? Every little info would help.

[DiodeLadder]

Hello 84Cronos,

 

Mass (weight) should only be added to dynamic objects, and on static meshes it should be zero. Zero that value, and you should be back in business.

 

But - am I reading right that you can add collision in NifSkope?? I never knew that function existed. :ohmy:

 

I just hope that MS would be more generous with accessing Havok in Starfield, or ditch it and move on to a modding friendly system that is editable in Creation Kit.

[84Cronos]

Hello 84Cronos,

 

Mass (weight) should only be added to dynamic objects, and on static meshes it should be zero. Zero that value, and you should be back in business.

 

But - am I reading right that you can add collision in NifSkope?? I never knew that function existed. :ohmy:

 

I just hope that MS would be more generous with accessing Havok in Starfield, or ditch it and move on to a modding friendly system that is editable in Creation Kit.

 

Thanks for your reply. I'll try that and see what happens. And yeah, you can add collision in Nifskope but it's only convex hull, so I've to cut up meshes in blender(I'm using the blender nif importer/exporter plugin) with more complex shapes and give each shape its own convex hull in Nifskope, then copy the col over to the normal mesh. It's a slow process and probably not super performance friendly since I can't use primitives, but it's still better than no col and it works in-game.

[Zorkaz]

I wrote about this issue here and how to deal with it

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/37329

[niston]

Mass (weight) should only be added to dynamic objects, and on static meshes it should be zero.

 

I usually set weight to 5 on my static collisions as I've seen stuff moving on its own in-game, when it's set to zero.

[84Cronos]

I'm currently adding collision to some meshes from the base game which I cut into different pieces in blender or to other objects. I'm using Nifskope's convex shape system to create the collision, since I don't have access to 3dsmax. I've the correct BSX flags and I chose the correct material and mass(120) under the rigid body info, then I sanitize everything and run it through Elric. After that I import it into my esp and everything works 100% fine. The meshes do have their proper static collision in the CK as well as in game - nothing out of the ordinary. However, as soon as my own objects become part of a SCOL, that SCOL somehow starts behaving like a movable static in the CK. It's extremely annoying and I've zero clue what's causing this. There should be no flag or data that should allow this behavior. It makes creating more custom worldspaces impossible for me since I heavily rely on SCOLs.

 

Has anybody ever encountered something similar and solved the issue? Every little info would help.

I tried doing that and if I include an object with a mass of 0 in my SCOL it just goes ape s#*!.

 

 

 

Hello 84Cronos,

 

Mass (weight) should only be added to dynamic objects, and on static meshes it should be zero. Zero that value, and you should be back in business.

 

But - am I reading right that you can add collision in NifSkope?? I never knew that function existed. :ohmy:

 

I just hope that MS would be more generous with accessing Havok in Starfield, or ditch it and move on to a modding friendly system that is editable in Creation Kit.

 

Thanks for your reply. I'll try that and see what happens. And yeah, you can add collision in Nifskope but it's only convex hull, so I've to cut up meshes in blender(I'm using the blender nif importer/exporter plugin) with more complex shapes and give each shape its own convex hull in Nifskope, then copy the col over to the normal mesh. It's a slow process and probably not super performance friendly since I can't use primitives, but it's still better than no col and it works in-game.

 

I read through everything and certain bits helped me to clarify things, for instance I already exported my SCOLs and noticed two different merged physics entries, which according to your tutorial means that my object is still dynamic. However, I don't want to export the SCOLs and re-add them, I simply want my custom collision from Nifskope to be static so that I can use the objects normally as well as in SCOLs, which also means that I want to be able to simply break up the SCOLs whenever I need to.

 

After I tried everything you guys recommended, I did some further digging and tried other things like setting the gravity to 0 and the motion type to MOS_FIXED. This makes it so that the SCOL doesn't move but its pivotpoint is still screwed up because my custom col still is being treated as a movable/dynamic object, which I noticed after exporting the SCOL and again seeing two merged physics entries. I think what it comes down to is setting the correct flags and options in the rigid body info in NIfskope, which 3DSmax with the PE Static Art export script is probably doing automatically. So I would need access to a file that has static collision from 3DS max before it was converted through Elrich so that I can compare the flags and other options. That's at least my assumption right now.

[DiodeLadder]

I finally got around to double check how my static assets behave when turned into SCOL, and they behave just as expected, like Behesda static assets. My static assets are all done with Mass = 0.

 

Just to clarify - As it says in the Havok help documentation (from HCT), Havok treats Mass = 0 as "fixed in space" and turns off dynamic physics on the object to save on processing. If Mass = 0 doesn't stop an object from affected by dynamic physics, I suspect there's a problem in the software you are using to edit mass.

 

Honestly, I doubt there's any flags accessible in NifSkope that can change the behavior. If there was, you guys would have found out how to fix it by now.

[84Cronos]

I finally got around to double check how my static assets behave when turned into SCOL, and they behave just as expected, like Behesda static assets. My static assets are all done with Mass = 0.

 

Just to clarify - As it says in the Havok help documentation (from HCT), Havok treats Mass = 0 as "fixed in space" and turns off dynamic physics on the object to save on processing. If Mass = 0 doesn't stop an object from affected by dynamic physics, I suspect there's a problem in the software you are using to edit mass.

 

Honestly, I doubt there's any flags accessible in NifSkope that can change the behavior. If there was, you guys would have found out how to fix it by now.

Thank you for the clarification. I did read the Collision Mini Guide by Bethesda, but they don't really go into any further details. It appears that their whole export is just being handled by a script so they don't even mention the specifics. You could be right though, nifskope might not be capable to create "true" static collision for Fallout 4 since afaik the focus of its current creators/contributors is more on Skyrim. As it sounds, it appears that you're having access to 3DSmax collision. Could you maybe provide me with a simple static convex hull collision object before it was processed by Elrich? Or just a normal one with primitives or mesh collision. I just need something to compare my nifs to.

[niston]

If Mass = 0 doesn't stop an object from affected by dynamic physics, I suspect there's a problem in the software you are using to edit mass.

 

It's not dynamic physics - The issue I was observing wasn't that the STAT object would fall. Instead, it would move ever so slightly on load.

Software used is 3ds 2013.

 

Also keep in mind that Beth's havok implementation isn't up to reference standards. Vehicles would be no problem whatsoever if it was.

[84Cronos]

Awesome news! Niston was so kind to provide me with several unprocessed collision examples from 3DSmax before they were ran through Elrich. My assumption was correct that I was using the wrong flags and values. I was able to generate static convex shape collision now that seems to behave like a true static. Which means my singular object has static collision and it behaves correctly when being part of a SCOL as well. Furthermore, it appears that the precombines and vis were also accepting my custom static collision. For people wondering, who might be running into the same issues while using Nifskope, here is a list of the changes I made:

 

>Entity Info

Process Contact Callback Delay = 65535

 

>Rigid Body Info

Motion System = MO_SYS_BOX_STABILIZED

Solver Deactivation = SOLVER_DEACTIVATION_LOW

Collision Response = RESPONSE_SIMPLE_CONTACT

Process Contact Callback Delay 3 = 65535

Quality Type = MO_QUAL_INVALID

 

I'm not sure if all of those are necessary, but I just used all of them because this is probably what the PE Static Art Script from 3DSmax is setting anyways for Convex Hull Collision. I haven't delved deeper into the whole Nifskope collision topic but I probably will in the future since I know that it's capable of creating collision with primitives for Skyrim. Thanks again to anybody who helped figuring this out.