SoulesFury Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 i have been following tutorials mainly kinggaths and several others i have been trying to learn this for about two years but now i have really been working at it ive made one but i am tryingto get alll these tools and mainly figure out collision and how to change it among other things, though i am trying to find 3ds max 2013 ive got everything i could find all in one placeblendernifscopegimpand several others does any one know where or if theres an alterative again i am now following kinggaths collision tutorial and ive got the havok tools 2014 but cant seem to find any where to even buy the older version of 3dsmax on the auto desk page it gives a option but says its no longer available after you click any help or points would be much appreciated, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cronos Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 I've heard several times that 3DS max 2013 is pretty much unobtainable these days, except if you like to sail or happen to know a sailor. Other than that one can do some collision in nifskope but its abilities are limited to convex hull collision(extremely costly collision in terms of computation time needed) and a few primitive shapes(best collision type in terms of computation time) like boxes and cylinders(with another fork of nifskope). Which means that we can't do mesh collision. All of this is more like a workaround and you will need to cut up meshes in blender(and export them with the NIF exporter) but it at least will allow you to do some collision. One important thing to note is that collision in Fallout 4 is fundamentally different to the collision in Skyrim since it involves a crucial last step, which is processing the collision data in Elrich, which makes it so that the resulting collision data can't be read by either 3ds max nor nifskope(at least as far as I know), so changing existing collision without having access to the source collision data before it was processed is a no no. This shouldn't be a problem though, since I suppose that you just want to add collision to new meshes. I've prepared a list with steps to help you better understand collision with nifskope and how to get the necessary tools, since I don't know how much you know about collision yet. I. Two videos which will help you to better understand collision: 1. Colllision for movable statics/misc items(objects with physics simulation) with convex hulls(also possible to add primitives afaik)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISRcNifg_R8The same author also has a second video on his channel where he showcases how to do several convex hulls for an object. 2. Collision with primitives(It's the fourth part of the video, check the time stamps)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ammbvh0PbKM II. Tools required1. If you want to do convex hull collision or collision with primitve boxes and the updated material names, like shown in the first video, navigate to the description of the first video and download the nifskope version and the updated xml for the material names2. If you want to also do primtive cylinders you will need another fork of Nifskope, since the other version isn't capable of rendering primitive cylinders. You will also need to update the XML file with the XML file provided by the version of point 1. Link to the fork: https://github.com/UnknownExplorer13/nifskope/releases3. Blender NIF importer/Exporter https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/52319 III. Values for static collisionI've done some testing based on the steps of the first video. While it appears that simply changing the layer to static in the rigid body info should make it so that the object is being treated as a static, this is unfortunately not really the case. Objects will remain static when being interacted with, but they unfortunately still possess physics data of movable statics. You willl therefore need to adjust some values in the entity info and rigid body info if you want statics that can also be part of a SCOL. The values were provided by Niston and were derived from Bethesda's PE Static Art export script for 3DS max. It isn't clear to me if these values are always the same but all my statics have worked properly so far, both within SCOLs as well as when being part of precombined data. Values for static collision:>Entity Info Process Contact Callback Delay = 65535 >Rigid Body Info Motion System = MO_SYS_BOX_STABILIZED Solver Deactivation = SOLVER_DEACTIVATION_LOW Collision Response = RESPONSE_SIMPLE_CONTACT Process Contact Callback Delay 3 = 65535 Quality Type = MO_QUAL_INVALID IV. Example workflow1. First I prepare a normal nif without any collision. Just the proper structure, materials and BSX file with the right flags.2. Backup the NIF3. Deciding whether it's necessary to cut up the NIF so that I can add several different convex hulls or if it's ok to just go with a lot of primitive boxes/cylinders4. (OPTIONAL) import the NIF into blender and cut it into different pieces when necessary(in a way so that several convex hullls can give you a good approximation of a decent mesh collision) and then export it to NIF.5. I have a CollisionObject, RigidBodyInfo and Listshape prepared with the right values for static collision so that I don't have to put them in every single time. So I just copy over the preprepared ColllisionObject branch from an existing NIF(before it was processed by Elrich).6. Adding convex hulll collision(I do the simplest convex hulls possible most of the time to help with performance) to the prepared shapes / adding primitive collision - I tend to mix them up based on the scenario or I just do either one. Everything that you need to know is described in the two videos I posted above.7. Sanitize > Reorder blocks8. Run everything through Elrich9. Copy over the resulting CollisionObject to the backup NIF from step 2. This obviously isn't necessary if you decide to don't cut up the mesh, which means that you can just directly add your convex hull/primitive shapes.10. Add that f*#@er to the game and test it properly. Addendum: 1. Always make sure to backup your files. You don't want to repeat doing crazy complex collision or cutting up meshes. Make it so that you can always fall back to a version of your NIF before it was processed by Elrich, so that you can change things quickly. Believe me, this will save you a lot of time.2. I can't guarantee that this workflow is 100% proper. My tests so far with precombines and SCOLs and other systems have all been positive, but I can't exclude the possibility that something is missing. So keep in mind that there still is a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulesFury Posted August 15, 2023 Author Share Posted August 15, 2023 woah this is so amazing thanks so much for this its definitely getting copied into my note pad i really appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cronos Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 woah this is so amazing thanks so much for this its definitely getting copied into my note pad i really appreciate itNo problem. I'm no expert when it comes to collision and I just recently starting doing it myself with Nifskope and a lot of help from other people, but if you've any further questions feel free to ask. Other than that I can only add that it would of course be the best option to just use 3DSmax if you can get your hands on it, as it's obviously the tool Bethesda used and it allows for a much tighter and faster work flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulesFury Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share Posted August 16, 2023 woah this is so amazing thanks so much for this its definitely getting copied into my note pad i really appreciate itNo problem. I'm no expert when it comes to collision and I just recently starting doing it myself with Nifskope and a lot of help from other people, but if you've any further questions feel free to ask. Other than that I can only add that it would of course be the best option to just use 3DSmax if you can get your hands on it, as it's obviously the tool Bethesda used and it allows for a much tighter and faster work flow. this is much appreciated though i get ahead of my self i started really 2 years ago but honestly i felt like i wasnt gonna be able to to conquer it and just recently started back and ive made leaps and bounds but i am trying to do repition and get familar with making changes i want to contribute to this community because i love this stuff. i advance and get stuck right now im stuck on sanctuary bridge i know theres other mods and such but i am trying to learn ive changed the bridge out every single way from the hard ways of trying to line it all up to swapping it out in place, but no matter how i have done it i end up with this invisble collision plane i can clearly see in ck when u hit f4 but for the life me i cannot figure out how to get rid of it hence coming here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cronos Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 woah this is so amazing thanks so much for this its definitely getting copied into my note pad i really appreciate itNo problem. I'm no expert when it comes to collision and I just recently starting doing it myself with Nifskope and a lot of help from other people, but if you've any further questions feel free to ask. Other than that I can only add that it would of course be the best option to just use 3DSmax if you can get your hands on it, as it's obviously the tool Bethesda used and it allows for a much tighter and faster work flow. this is much appreciated though i get ahead of my self i started really 2 years ago but honestly i felt like i wasnt gonna be able to to conquer it and just recently started back and ive made leaps and bounds but i am trying to do repition and get familar with making changes i want to contribute to this community because i love this stuff. i advance and get stuck right now im stuck on sanctuary bridge i know theres other mods and such but i am trying to learn ive changed the bridge out every single way from the hard ways of trying to line it all up to swapping it out in place, but no matter how i have done it i end up with this invisble collision plane i can clearly see in ck when u hit f4 but for the life me i cannot figure out how to get rid of it hence coming here. What's the name of the bridge object that you're using? I'm gonna take a look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepperman35 Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) redacted *duplicate* Edited August 17, 2023 by pepperman35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulesFury Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share Posted August 17, 2023 woah this is so amazing thanks so much for this its definitely getting copied into my note pad i really appreciate itNo problem. I'm no expert when it comes to collision and I just recently starting doing it myself with Nifskope and a lot of help from other people, but if you've any further questions feel free to ask. Other than that I can only add that it would of course be the best option to just use 3DSmax if you can get your hands on it, as it's obviously the tool Bethesda used and it allows for a much tighter and faster work flow. this is much appreciated though i get ahead of my self i started really 2 years ago but honestly i felt like i wasnt gonna be able to to conquer it and just recently started back and ive made leaps and bounds but i am trying to do repition and get familar with making changes i want to contribute to this community because i love this stuff. i advance and get stuck right now im stuck on sanctuary bridge i know theres other mods and such but i am trying to learn ive changed the bridge out every single way from the hard ways of trying to line it all up to swapping it out in place, but no matter how i have done it i end up with this invisble collision plane i can clearly see in ck when u hit f4 but for the life me i cannot figure out how to get rid of it hence coming here. What's the name of the bridge object that you're using? I'm gonna take a look at it. i am just trying to swap the northbridge with the prewarnorthbridge and i just cant get the invisble wall to go away if your facing red rocket on the sanctuary side of the bridge along the brick wall/path i hit a invisble wall no matter how i do it, again i know this isnt a mod that i will publish or anything i just want to learn you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cronos Posted August 17, 2023 Share Posted August 17, 2023 I just checked the prewarnorthbridge static object both in the CK and in-game and I don't see any collision planes/walls. It must be something else that is blocking you. Try to hit the "M" hotkey while you're in the render window to display markers and see if there is something else blocking or hit F4 to look at the collision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulesFury Posted August 18, 2023 Author Share Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) I just checked the prewarnorthbridge static object both in the CK and in-game and I don't see any collision planes/walls. It must be something else that is blocking you. Try to hit the "M" hotkey while you're in the render window to display markers and see if there is something else blocking or hit F4 to look at the collision.yes ive done that andi see like and invisble red outline where nothing is. it happens in game but i will do it again just to be sure. let me know if those pics show up Edited August 18, 2023 by SoulesFury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts