Editing Ship module NIF's - NIFskope - Blender & other tools

[Gilibran]

So, i was looking into "modding" some shipmodules, mainly I would like to be able to have more options for certain structural parts so they can be placed on the underside of your ship instead of only top positions. For instance the Nova flat radiator can only be placed on top, why not also on the belly of your ship!?

 

Another example:

 

The Nova 2L cowling has 4 possible positions:
smod_struct_nova_cowllong_aftbtm
smod_struct_nova_cowllong_afttop
smod_struct_nova_cowllong_forebtm
smod_struct_nova_cowllong_foretop

 

The Deimos cowl only has 2:

smod_struct_deimos_cowl_aft_a
smod_struct_deimos_cowl_fore_a

 

This means in order to have 4 positions for the Deimos cowling, just like the Nova one, we would have to create 2 new NIF's

smod_struct_deimos_cowl_aft_a Bottom
smod_struct_deimos_cowl_fore_a Bottom

 

So with the limited tools available I started investigating, we can now view NIF's in NIFskope with the latest DEV version found on Github and we can open .MESH files in Blender with https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/4360?tab=description&BH=3

 

Here is the issue:

 

A NIF is made up of several individual .MESH files found in the geometries folder when you extract the MESH01 archive. There are 98.235 folders in geometries each containing a single .MESH

 

To find the individual .MESH that make up a NIF load it into NIFskope, select a BSGemometry line and in Blocklist expand Meshes.

Here you wil find:

 

Mesh0

Mesh1

Mesh2

Mesh3

 

Expand those and you will see "has mesh 1" or has "mesh 0" expand further to find the Mesh path = the individual .MESH in the Geometries folder.

 

 

 

I think, i'm new to this:

 

If I wanted to "flip" the Deimos cowl I would need to create a new NIF, this as far as I think is as "simple" as copying an existing one: smod_struct_deimos_cowl_aft_a flipping it 180 degrees and then saving it as smod_struct_deimos_cowl_aft_a Bottom

 

 

However then the real work starts, I looked at the .MESH files for smod_struct_nova_cowllong_forebtm and smod_struct_nova_cowllong_foretop and compared the .MESH files. Each has different .MESH files for the position.

 

 

 

 

This means, we also need to edit and save as new each individual .MESH file and link it correctly, in the Nova example there are 28 lines BSGeometry. Some have just 1 "Has mesh" set to 1 others have 2-3 even 4 "Has mesh set to 1", this easily adds up to over a hundred different .MESH files we would need to edit!?

 

 

Now I know it's early for modding, but can anybody already more familiar with the new NIF and .MESH setup shed some light on this and tell me if I am correct in the above?

 

If so what would this mean for editing existing assets and even creating new ones!? Something seemingly as "simple" as flipping a ship module could turn out to be a huge time consuming and meticulous task.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gilibran]

Did some testing and luckily I was wrong, I used smod_struct_deimos_cowl_fore_a and flipped each BSgeometry in NIFskope 180 degrees, saved the NIF, created the correct folder path and dropped it into my MO2 overwrite folder.

The structural part showed up like I wanted, it can be painted but it retains it's original snap points.

 

Next test I saved it as another part to replace, I chose the Taiyo spine a NIF to be replaced with my flipped smod_struct_deimos_cowl_fore_a NIF.

 

It showed up when I selected the Taiyo spine a, retained the snap points from the Taiyo Spine A but lost the option to be colored!?

So, phew, apart from having to individually flip each BSGeometry in NIFSkope since you cannot "select all" ,in case of flipping ship modules it's not as bad as I tought, next thing to figure out how to correct the snappoints and how to retain the option to color the part when you replace another module. Since we cannot yet add new parts, for now we will have to do with replacing existing NIF's.





Anyone else trying the same thing and able to contribute, please do so, whatever you learned is appreciated and could help people in the future looking to dive into modding.

[Gilibran]

I'll keep posting my findings here for anyone to use in the future who also wants to "mod" modules.

So flipping in NIFskope is easy enough, go to blocklist > select the 0NiNode > right click then > Edit. This will move all parts at once.

2 issues i'm running into:

 

Issue 1:

If you replace a, for example, Nova module NIF with a Deimos module NIF the option to color that part is not available anymore!? At this moment no clue as to why.

 

However if you replace a Deimos NIF with a Deimos NIF the option to color the modded part remains!?

 

 

Issue 2:

The part inherits the snappoints of the NIF you are replacing. So to get this corrected I replaced Deimos Belly fore with my flipped NIF so it now has the correct snappoints.

 

 

 

So for now, if you want to "mod" ship modules only replace NIF's from the same manufacturer and make sure that the snappoints of the module you are replacing correspond with your "modded" NIF or at least has a snappoint so you can fit your "modded" module like you intended.

[Gilibran]

So kindoff stuck at the moment, I cant find anything on the snappoints, unlike FO4 where the snappoints are added to the NIF file in NIFskope, they have changed this and it is now done differently.

 

I have found nothing in the NIF files pointing to anything related to snappoints, there are shipsnapnodemarkers and artwork files that indicate what can be placed on a module (the blue circles/squares/arrows indicating if a a module can be placed, equipment or if it's a door/ladder position) but nothing how they are used.

I'll keep searching and exploring, if anyone knows, much obliged if you post anything you found here.

[drfreako]

Snaps are now handled by additional forms nested within the item's form itself. This is called "snaptemplate". Furthermore, the snaptemplate forms themselves are made up of even more forms called "snaptemplatenode". Both of these new forms have separate nifs associated with them, but any and all data used for positioning etc is assigned via the forms and not within any of the nifs directly.

This is as far as we can get for now. Once Elm releases the full version of sf1edit, we will be able to make copies of the snaptemplate and snapnode forms and change the data values within them. Then we can find the most efficient way to create new snaps on new objects. I sorta get why they did it this way, but at the same time, it feels like the went the long way 'round with this approach...

With the FO4 approach, you could simply add snap points to existing items that didn't have any, without making an esp file. Now, not only do you have to make an esp, but there are anywhere from 1 to <who knows how many forms>(it will depend on how complex the item/how may snaps are involved) that will need to be copied/edited to achieve the same result.

 

I will post here again when I have any relevant new info.

Edited October 11, 2023 by drfreako

[InquisitorOverhaulsReturn]

You guys are doing god's work... :D

[Gilibran]

Thank you,

 

Hexabit pointed me to this last night, the snappoints are in the ESM, so for now there is indeed not much more I can do.

I did finish flipping and rotating and naming all the extra NIF's with NIFskope, hopefully not to early and in vain :-)

 

Created 107 extra position variants for the modules sofar, will have to test them ingame if they show up in the intended new orientation, even if the snappoints are incorrect for now that's something that can be crossed of the list.

For almost all of them, there are already correct snappoints, just attached to different modules, so hopefully if we are lucky it's just a matter of finding the right one and linking it to the "new" module. Fingers crossed :-)

Very much obliged if you can keep me updated

[Gilibran]

A small update, with a highly experimental version SF1edit which only allows viewing the ESM content at the moment I found how snapnodes are handled.

There are 6 "universal" snapnodes, top, bottom, aft, fore, port, starboard.

 

These are "re-used" for every module and positioned "manually" after they are "linked" to a module as you can see when you look at other modules:

 

These have 2 bottom snapnodes with different X-Y-Z coordinates/offsets, with these coordinates they can be placed anywhere on the module, port/starboard is also not an issue as you can see for the coordinates for the Taiyo 3 wide slope.

 

This is good news for me, since I want to rotate modules 90 degrees so they can also be fitted port or starboard instead of just fore or aft, it will "just" be a puzzle what the coordinates need to be.

How to get the modules in game and how much work it will be is still under investigation, things like adding them properly to the buildmenu and being able to select them using the arrow keys (like different hab interiors) or automatically > if you select a port node it will automatically show the port module and you only have to swicht top bottom using Z and what keywords need to be added.

It's a waiting game at the moment and i'm also looking at other modules, mainly the Bays so all of them have a rear exit option.

As for Habs, before anyone asks, this looks like it's a whole different ballgame, as much as I to want to have a 3x1 hab oriented port to starboard. It looks like the interior is seperated from the hab and with all the stuff attached to randomly determine doorways and ladders and shifting interior that comes with that, i'm not sure I will ever be touching them.

[staberind]

oh dear lord, does this mean that we can also add snap points? fantastic.

also to answer your earlier question wrt "Nova module NIF with a Deimos module NIF" the two different modules have two different colour schemes/ texture maps, and one manufacturer's maps are going to be shared among their parts. short of making a new set of texture maps and finding how to apply or "wrap" the mesh, (actually not massivly difficult if you have an idea of what you want already, making the texture, buuuut applying it is going to need an update to NifSkope, I suspect, although thats in the works.)

Edit, also good for you for all that you have figured out and shared so far, I and I am certain many others really appreciate it.

Oh!

Also, there are different flavours of snap point as well, you are looking at structural ones, but there are, as you probably know, equipment ones and hardpoint style ones. (or just one style for both, i dunno, *Shrug*)

5th edit so far, you got my brane fizzing; the fact that the interiour and exteriour are two different things matters less actually, as long as what it connects to actually connects properly. an edeted 3x1x2 for the Cabot would be amazing, or a top x bottom version that sticks out less would also work, and maybe not need so much editing.

Edited October 16, 2023 by staberind

[Gilibran]

oh dear lord, does this mean that we can also add snap points? fantastic.

As far as my knowledge at this moment goes, yes, snap points can be added to any NIF just like in FO4, just in a different way seperated from Nifskope. If I look at the large ship M-modules I also think there is no limit to how many.

also to answer your earlier question wrt "Nova module NIF with a Deimos module NIF" the two different modules have two different colour schemes/ texture maps, and one manufacturer's maps are going to be shared among their parts. short of making a new set of texture maps and finding how to apply or "wrap" the mesh, (actually not massivly difficult if you have an idea of what you want already, making the texture, buuuut applying it is going to need an update to NifSkope, I suspect, although thats in the works.)

Looks to be an issue to tackle for new meshes/scratchbuild ones, just copying the mesh and replacing a same manufacturer one the paint option is untouched. I think, but cannot say for sure untill I can actually add the "modded" meshes that it is keyword related.

Edit, also good for you for all that you have figured out and shared so far, I and I am certain many others really appreciate it.

I could have kept it for myself, since I have no clue how this works and prevent looking like an idiot :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ,but thought it better to just share as I go in the hope others would chime in with what they have been able to figure out. Modding is sharing afterall.

Oh!

Also, there are different flavours of snap point as well, you are looking at structural ones, but there are, as you probably know, equipment ones and hardpoint style ones. (or just one style for both, i dunno, *Shrug*)

Looks like they use only 1 Snapnode (Snapnode_ship_Equipment_Side01a) for equipment and weapons and there are several "art" nodes to visualize if it's a Module node, Equipment node, Door node, Ladder node etc. etc.

5th edit so far, you got my brane fizzing; the fact that the interiour and exteriour are two different things matters less actually, as long as what it connects to actually connects properly. an edeted 3x1x2 for the Cabot would be amazing, or a top x bottom version that sticks out less would also work, and maybe not need so much editing.

:laugh: I will probably dive into it once I did what I set out to do first, I came accross alot of stuff that seems to be related to the "random" ladder and door placement. I'm slowly beginning to see how stuff connects but the inner workings are still a mystery :laugh: