2013 Import CAT Biped

[SonAnima]

Can someone with a newer version of 3ds max please convert the import cat biped to work for the 2013 version of 3ds max for me? None of the files downloadable on nexus that has a import cat rig dont work for the 2013 version. I downloaded every single version of the file on the mod page and every single import cat biped rig gives me the error message that I the project was made with a newer version of 3ds max.

If there is a way to import vanilla animations without using that rig and have everything work in game please let me know.

Edited December 4, 2023 by SonAnima

[DiodeLadder]

Hello SonAnima,

Try this one.  I've never done saving in an older version before, but it seems to open in 2013.  Let me know if it worked.

F4BipedCATImport2013.zip

[South8028]

https://disk.yandex.ru/d/Hb-paYcTLq0ycg

 

This is a zaz rig. BottomhoodofSteel made it for sex content, but I use it for everything because it's the easiest rig to manage. There's also hco for setting up hct and txt with zaz bones.

 

Made with this rig in 3ds 2013

Edited December 5, 2023 by South8028

[SonAnima]

http://

The import rig doesnt work but the Zaz does. What I want to do is make my own weapon animations and I want to use the vanilla animations for a basis to learn animating faster. I heard from this video that if I was to import vanilla animations without using the import rig that the body and skeleton wont be attach along with other issues

Im sure that theres a way that I dont know about (I tend to over think things) to work around this as with the videos above prove that it is possible to import working animations into the game without using the import rig. Does the export process change at all by using a rig different from the vanilla game? By the way nice wall climb animations. I bet the project that your working on is pretty epic.

[South8028]

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/69177

I use this for import. But you will have to edit with the built-in biped rig, because the skeleton does not have zaz bones and when the animation is re-exported to fbx, the cbp bones fall off. But there are tutorials on weapon animation on the nexus. There is no point in opening vanilla animations. Also, this import script knocks bgs materials out of Max 2013. After using the script, I recommend removing it from plugins when it is not needed.It doesn't matter what rig you use to animate with. hkx is just xml with a set of bone coordinates and metadata. This tells the skeleton bones what coordinates to accept and the engine what havok annotations to perform. 3st export for all bones, 1st export for incomplete skeleton. So the difference between 1st and 3st is only in the txt you select in hct for hkx export. I don't have any projects. I just make models and animations that pop into my head.

Edited December 5, 2023 by South8028

[DiodeLadder]

It might be that 2013 file I uploaded won't open unless it's been updated.  Do you have the Product Update 6 for Max 2013 installed?  As you can see in the screenshot, it loads fine on my 2013 here.  It was saved in 2015 (service pack 4 installed) as 2013 format, and 2013 with PU6 installed would open it.  

(It seems that Autodesk pulled the update patches from their site.  Those were still available about a year ago.)

By the way, 2015 pretty much needs service pack 4, because without the patch, it tends to crash when loading a project with CAT used.  (It took me ages to figure this out, in case anyone else reading is wondering what to do about the crashes.)

Anyway, try the one suggested by South.  After having used imported Bethesda animations as references, I must say, I'm not a big fan of using their animations as starting point.  Their anims have weird quirks, as if the animator didn't lock the rotation axis of joints while working (crooked fingers and forearms, for example).  The one I'm working on right now is done from a clean slate, an A-pose, and it's much cleaner and simpler to work with.  

Other quirks you might want to watch out for is Havok Tools file save path, as it doesn't like some locations.  Safest paths to save are either 1) desktop, or 2) max project file root, depending on context.

[SonAnima]

1 hour ago, DiodeLadder said:

It might be that 2013 file I uploaded won't open unless it's been updated.  Do you have the Product Update 6 for Max 2013 installed?  As you can see in the screenshot, it loads fine on my 2013 here.  It was saved in 2015 (service pack 4 installed) as 2013 format, and 2013 with PU6 installed would open it.  

(It seems that Autodesk pulled the update patches from their site.  Those were still available about a year ago.)

By the way, 2015 pretty much needs service pack 4, because without the patch, it tends to crash when loading a project with CAT used.  (It took me ages to figure this out, in case anyone else reading is wondering what to do about the crashes.)

Anyway, try the one suggested by South.  After having used imported Bethesda animations as references, I must say, I'm not a big fan of using their animations as starting point.  Their anims have weird quirks, as if the animator didn't lock the rotation axis of joints while working (crooked fingers and forearms, for example).  The one I'm working on right now is done from a clean slate, an A-pose, and it's much cleaner and simpler to work with.  

Other quirks you might want to watch out for is Havok Tools file save path, as it doesn't like some locations.  Safest paths to save are either 1) desktop, or 2) max project file root, depending on context.

Thanks for the tips about the save path and that its best to start from a clean slate when it comes to animations. 

 

2 hours ago, South8028 said:

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/69177

I use this for import. But you will have to edit with the built-in biped rig, because the skeleton does not have zaz bones and when the animation is re-exported to fbx, the cbp bones fall off. But there are tutorials on weapon animation on the nexus. There is no point in opening vanilla animations. Also, this import script knocks bgs materials out of Max 2013. After using the script, I recommend removing it from plugins when it is not needed.It doesn't matter what rig you use to animate with. hkx is just xml with a set of bone coordinates and metadata. This tells the skeleton bones what coordinates to accept and the engine what havok annotations to perform. 3st export for all bones, 1st export for incomplete skeleton. So the difference between 1st and 3st is only in the txt you select in hct for hkx export. I don't have any projects. I just make models and animations that pop into my head.

Thanks for referring me to that script. Im still new to all of this animating thing so thanks for having patience with me. I watched more of your youtube videos and was amazed at the submarine settlement and especially the electric fence. Good work

[DiodeLadder]

I should elaborate more on using the clean slate for starting point :

The thing about the first person anims is that it usually involves rather unnatural posing to make the guns and hands appear on camera (gun is held higher than how a person would normally shoot in real life).  Bethesda's guns are huge, and to accommodate that on screen, sometimes arms and shoulders are in weirdly stretched or rotated positions.  Also, looks to me the Bethesda artist used IK on left arm without locking rotations in some cases, and this caused unnatural twists on forearm in some animations.  Using them as starting points can be a frustrating experience because of those things, and why I said starting clean is better.

However, there are some tricks found in Bethesda animations that are very helpful.  For example, the first person walking/running head bobbing animations are created by animating the camera, and I'd recommend taking a look at Bethesda animation to see how they did it.  I have a spreadsheet with these coordinates notated frame by frame, so that I can use the camera movement in any of my animations.  Sprint animation is done by tilting the pelvis, and animating the camera, also.  It is definitely worth seeing what Bethesda did for learning purposes, and taking notes.

Also, for the third person gun anims, those are mostly handled by the pistol/rifle architype animations, and what we get to work on are additive layer covering just hands and guns.  For this reason, you have no choice but to start with Bethesda animations as bases.

Another thing, you might want to use Vault Suit or Synth Uniform as clothing while animating, as they would clearly show if the arms are twisted in a strange way.  If you are using IK and not careful, you could easily end up with strange rotations.

As for Power Armor, this is the rig that actually works :

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/39089?tab=description

There's also an "Improved" version of this rig on nexus, which "fixes" the gimbal lock on pelvis, but that fix actually causes more problems and I don't recommend it.  Specifically, when you are doing the third person reload animation, torso armor will appear 90 degrees rotated in Y axis.  Other animations created using the "improved" version will look fine because of layer masks. but the reload animation would include torso. 

[South8028]

Beth used motion capture for all human animations. They even made a film of how they animated the dog using mocap. If they put sensors on River (the name of a real dog from fo4), then they didn’t animate the person manually. In general, havok is specially made to work with mocap. This is the right topic. Now there are many programs and AI for markerless mocap. I will be looking for free, or cheap mocap solutions. Because it's a hundred times better than manual animation. An example of super mutants that bgs animated without mocap. I get teary-eyed every time I see the Super Mutant animations.

[DiodeLadder]

I seriously doubt any of the 1st person gun animations are mocaps (you can read about all the quirks in my last post).

Here's no-mocap anims done by me :

 

I've created all the animation keyframes manually myself.