Exporting DDS files for Fallout 4

[smokesandcoffee]

I use gimp for all of my texture conversions from png files to dds files and I was curious to know which compression method I should be using. Which one should I use to get the best results for FO4? Anyone know?

[Guest deleted65729341]

A bit of a strange question. The format depends on the map. And also a lot depends on the specific application of the texture... if we are talking about better results when using these textures. There is also a format that is somewhere between quality and performance, but I don’t know if this can be called the best result.

Please don't be offended, but this is really not such a simple question that can be answered with one value. For example, I will tell you the generally accepted BC7 format and deceive you, because it will not be the best choice.

p.s. and more poetically - ashes and coffee.

Edited January 10 by SweetKate

[smokesandcoffee]

Thanks for responding, I am brand new to this whole modding scene and I'm still familiarizing myself with all the terminology. I did some more digging and found out the following in case anyone else is curious:

BC1 Compression:

1. Color Compression: BC1 is suitable for compressing color textures, such as diffuse maps or color maps.
2. Alpha Channel: BC1 supports 1-bit alpha, meaning it's suitable for textures that have either fully opaque or fully transparent pixels. It is not ideal for semi-transparent or smooth gradient alpha textures.
3. File Size: BC1 generally produces smaller file sizes compared to BC3, making it more efficient for storage and loading times.
4. Performance: BC1 is often faster to decompress, which can be beneficial for real-time applications.

BC3 Compression:

1. Color Compression: BC3 is designed for compressing color textures and supports higher precision than BC1. It is suitable for textures with complex color information, such as diffuse maps with detailed color variations.
2. Alpha Channel: BC3 supports 8-bit alpha, allowing for semi-transparent and smooth gradient alpha textures. This makes it suitable for textures with varying levels of transparency.
3. File Size: BC3 generally produces larger file sizes compared to BC1 due to the additional information stored in the alpha channel.
4. Performance: BC3 decompression may be slightly slower than BC1, but the difference is often negligible in modern hardware.

BC5 Compression:

1. Color Compression: BC5 is designed for compressing grayscale or two-channel textures, such as heightmaps or normal maps. It is not suitable for color images.
2. Alpha Channel: BC5 does not support alpha channels directly. It is intended for grayscale images, so if you have a texture with an alpha channel, BC5 might not be the best choice.
3. Detail: BC5 provides higher precision for grayscale information, making it suitable for textures with fine details or smooth gradients.

BC7:

• Color Compression: BC7 is a more recent compression format that offers higher quality color compression compared to BC3. It supports more color levels and provides better visual quality, especially for high-color-depth textures.

• Alpha Channel: BC7 supports both opaque and alpha textures, similar to BC3. However, BC7 is considered superior in preserving details in the alpha channel.

• File Size: BC7 may produce larger file sizes compared to BC3 due to its higher quality compression. It's a trade-off between file size and visual quality.

• Performance: BC7 decompression may be slightly more computationally expensive than BC3, but it's still performant on modern graphics hardware.

Considerations:

• If you have color textures with a simple alpha channel or no alpha channel, and you prioritize smaller file sizes, BC1 may be a more appropriate choice.
• If you have color textures with complex color information and require support for semi-transparent or smooth gradient alpha, BC3 is a suitable choice despite larger file sizes.

It's essential to evaluate your specific use case, considering factors such as texture complexity, alpha channel requirements, file size constraints, and performance considerations. In many cases, a combination of BC1 and BC3 textures may be used based on the nature of different textures within a project.

• Visual Quality: If visual quality is a top priority and you can afford larger file sizes, BC7 may be a better choice.

• File Size: If file size is a concern and the visual quality difference is acceptable, BC3 could be a more economical choice.

• Compatibility: Consider the target platform and application compatibility. Not all platforms or graphics hardware may support BC7 compression.

 

[Guest deleted65729341]

This is a general description of the formats, but no specific information on using them in Fo4. The game has its own rules. For example, the creators of optimized texture packages prefer to compress in BC1, but not everyone likes it.  There have been many discussions and arguments about this. As I myself know, the quality of some textures in such packages is sometimes frightening in their display in the game. 

Or here's a useful article about the formats to follow when working with character-related textures. Body, face, and more. That's why I say it's hard to call a certain format general. 

Everything comes with experience and I believe that you will succeed. Good luck and an ocean of inspiration.

 

 

 

[xrayy]

the problem with gimp in the past was there was no full support for bc7. so at least i prefer free to use paint.net for high quality dds conversions. the enhanced quality and color treatment due to advanced compression methods is worth to use the bc7 dds format. it is supported by most dx11games using dds format. in case of beth since fallout 4 and sse. to exchange images between gimp and paint.net i use the lossless tga format.

[greekrage]

There is a very extensive guide on Gimp and texture exports to Fo4...

Use the search....

[RoNin1971]

FO4 uses:

BC1 for opaque textures

BC3 for textures with transparency

BC5 for normals

 

Using BC3 for everything makes no serious difference.

 

BC7 did not exist yet and was not used / supported. Therefor should be avoided, imho.

[xrayy]

you should study the formats! bc7 is since full support in 2012 the clear winner comparing texture formats in dx11. bc5 is medium and in my opinion quality wise hot trash since bc7 is fully supported, but it is still usable for normal maps e. g. . just expect visible compression artifacts and color degradation if not using bc7. not that important for normal maps in some cases. even the latest lodgenerator for beth games uses bc7 format and you will literally see the difference!

 

BC7 (PC): 8 bits/pixel, using 4x4 pixel blocks. Has been in all DX11-class PC GPUs (NVIDIA since 2010, AMD since 2009, Intel since 2012).

• bc7e (red) looks like a clear winner. The various presets it has either have better quality, or faster compression (or both) compared to ISPC (green).
• bc7enc is behind the curve in all aspects, which I think is by design – it seems more like an experiment “how to do a minimal BC7 compressor”; just use bc7e instead.

@ronin you are clearly not up to date with your bc7 information. i use it since 2017 for fo4 and sse in my mods and it is safe to use!

[South8028]

I use the old Photoshop plugin nvidea d3d 64bit for D textures, formats dxt1 (regular normals), dxt3 (alpha channel), dxt5 (transparent surfaces for bsLightingFx). Intel Texture Works plugin for N,S. bs5 format. I started out using bs7 but decided against it. The weight of bs7 is not proportional to the quality of the textures and when building large settlements using a large number of textures, bs7 crashes fps. Photorealism in fo4 is, in principle, impossible to achieve in any way, because the shaders are what they are... A plastic, rough image. I don't see the point in bs7. But, of course, this is just my subjective attitude. If you love bs7 you should definitely use it. If I use your mod, I'll just repackage your bs7 to dxt1.

[RoNin1971]

8 hours ago, xrayy said:

you should study the formats! bc7 is since full support in 2012 the clear winner comparing texture formats in dx11. bc5 is medium and in my opinion quality wise hot trash since bc7 is fully supported, but it is still usable for normal maps e. g. . just expect visible compression artifacts and color degradation if not using bc7. not that important for normal maps in some cases. even the latest lodgenerator for beth games uses bc7 format and you will literally see the difference!

 

BC7 (PC): 8 bits/pixel, using 4x4 pixel blocks. Has been in all DX11-class PC GPUs (NVIDIA since 2010, AMD since 2009, Intel since 2012).

• bc7e (red) looks like a clear winner. The various presets it has either have better quality, or faster compression (or both) compared to ISPC (green).
• bc7enc is behind the curve in all aspects, which I think is by design – it seems more like an experiment “how to do a minimal BC7 compressor”; just use bc7e instead.

@ronin you are clearly not up to date with your bc7 information. i use it since 2017 for fo4 and sse in my mods.

Beth started working on Fo4 without BC7. The format was NOT used for any texture.

The fact it appears to work doesn't mean it is fully supported by the engine.

Note that using different compressions can give all sorts of anomalies/problems. (like brown face and stuff)

Use it all you want. I'll stick to what the game uses itself.