Complex weapon (non-balistic) damage seem impossible to negate

[PJMail]

My VB is being killed by a Mirelurk King's 'unarmed' Poison attack, even though it has the "ImmuneToPoison [PERK:000A2776]" Perk, and a Perk setting  "Incomming Weapon damage" to 0 from subjects with "WeaponTypeUnarmed [KYWD:0005240E]" keyword.

Onhit says the weapon is "Unarmed Mirelurk King" [WEAP:000C2C2F] (which has 'WeaponTypeUnarmed')
- this applies effect dtPoisonEnchMirelurkKing "Poison Damage" [ENCH:000550A5]
- Which applies MagicEffect crPoisonEffect "Damage Type Poison" [MGEF:001FE6A2]
- Which is a detrimental Health drain IF Subject.HasPerk(ImmuneToPoison [PERK:000A2776]) = 0

So why does my NPC get a health drain each hit? Surely the condition MGEF should block the Poison effect?

Does the game get lost in the chain of effects and check the wrong 'subject'?

Alternatively - is it possible doing a 'moveto' on the VB is breaking the Perks? I know NPC unload can have unwanted effects, but the Console says the PoisonImmunity Perk is still attached.

Confused.

[LarannKiar]

Are you sure it's due to Poison damage? Maybe the damage is dealt by:

   MirelurkKingSonicExplosion (in the CK, I see AmmoMirelurkKing >> MirelurkKingProj >> MirelurkKingSonicExplosion), or

   crMirelurkKingRadHazard (NPC record >> crMirelurkKingRadCloak >> crMirelurkKingCloakEffect >> crMirelurkKingRadHazard)?

 

Either way, you can also try:

   Mod Incoming Weapon Damage --> Attacker Condition --> (Subject) { GetIsID "MirelurkKingSonicExplosion" }

   Mod Incoming Weapon Damage --> Attacker Weapon Condition --> (Subject) { HasKeyword "DamageTypePoison" }

   Mod Incoming Spell Magnitude --> Spell Condition >> (Subject) { GetIsID ("dtPoisonEnchMirelurkKing" and "MirelurkKingProj") AND EPMagic_SpellHasKeyword "DamageTypePoison" }

 

Notes: ActorCause and Explosion instance interaction is partially broken when it comes to "Mod Incoming (...)" Perk entries.. it's sometimes better just to exclude "everything related" in the entry, then try to remove them one by one until the condition list becomes clean or elegant but the mod stays bugfree too. ActorCause is a special type of reference data supposed to track back certain special refs like explosions and projectiles to their "source" actor. I'm not sure right now which Mod Incoming (...) "enchantable forms" like Weapon>> Enchanting are calculated against but Mod Incoming Spell Magnitude >> Spell >> GetIsID takes a few IDs that should be particularly useful when the weapon or the NPC in question has "special" effects.

Edited January 15, 2024 by LarannKiar

[PJMail]

I was concentrating on what OnHit reported, but you are correct to remind me explosive damage is handled differently. I will double check those. Thanks.

[PJMail]

I have looked at all those resulting effects and they all end up as more Poison effects (RadScorpion_dtPoisonEffectChanceAlways, which also has the PoisonImmunity exclusion), visual effects (all the explosions do), or a PerceptionCondition reduction.

There are no healthAV reduction effects except from Poison Magic effects. It is almost like the test for 'hasperk' is failing in some case.

And it seems this does not happen always. I spawned a mass of Mirelurk Kings and their attacks had no effect.

Bugthesda strikes again.

[PJMail]

Seems only Legendary Mirelurk Kings are the problem, and even a "Mod incoming Weapon Damage" (to zero) from them does nothing - so it must be a spell.

[PJMail]

Well, I don't know. I have blocked all the spells I can see could be used. No difference.

How does one find what is causing the damage when the onhit reports a weapon that can't cause the damage ( "Unarmed Mirelurk King" [WEAP:000C2C2F]). That it. 384 reduction in health in one hit...

[PJMail]

A small update - I think it is the Jump-attack as I have seen one fall from the VB (and damage itself in the fall) at the same time as the hit.
Clearly a buggy interaction somewhere.

Does anyone have an idea where this damage is defined? The "UnarmedDamage" AVIF is only 75, and when on the ground is 100% blocked by a Perk giving zero weapon damage to 'unarmed' weapons.

[gob2]

I'm just spitballing here...you might check race records Attack Data, some entries link to spells, like radscorpion tail attacks if I read it right. Also, an actor's stats(?) can have an unarmed value, although I don't know how that interacts with the unarmed weapon.

[LarannKiar]

On 1/16/2024 at 9:03 PM, PJMail said:

A small update - I think it is the Jump-attack as I have seen one fall from the VB (and damage itself in the fall) at the same time as the hit.
Clearly a buggy interaction somewhere.

Does anyone have an idea where this damage is defined? The "UnarmedDamage" AVIF is only 75, and when on the ground is 100% blocked by a Perk giving zero weapon damage to 'unarmed' weapons.

If you haven't resolved this issue yet, I can take a look at the OnHit event structure if you're interested. I might be able to add GetAttackerSpell(), GetAttackerMagicEffect() or GetHitLocation() to Garden of Eden SE.. but I haven't tried it yet so I can't make any promises.

Edited February 8, 2024 by LarannKiar

[PJMail]

I really think this is some buggy interaction compounded with a damage multiplier - it is impossible otherwise to loose 384 health from an unarmed attack that is totally blocked by a perk.

At the moment I have resolved it by explicitely blocking the Mirelurk King 'sonic attack' spell (which means it no longer even tries to attack) - but the bug is out there so will bite me again a different way.

I wouldn't put a lot of effort into it unless someone else can use those functions - I am going to lay off modding for a couple of months (I need to regain some enthusiasm).

Thanks for the offer though.