How to properly edit nifs?

[zhulikkulik]

I'm trying to remove some parts of TruckTrailer02 to make it possible to go through it, but it seems like I'm missing something important. Have tried two different ways - using blender and pynify and using OutfitStudio. All I need to do is: 1) Remove some faces from the front part. 2) Duplicate part of the floor to cover a hole in the mesh where there's no geometry.

It looks perfectly fine in nifskope, in blender and in OS. And upon first load it looks fine even in CK's preview. But then it turns into this as soon as I save the new object and/or put it into the cell:

 

It doesn't matter if I duplicate mesh as new object (new shape in OS and delete verts you don't need) or inside the object (just shift+d in blender edit mode). It doesn't even seem to be related to copied vertices as it breaks the same way if I only remove the verts and don't change anything else.

What is the correct way to do it?

 

Edit: Thought that maybe I just shouldn't delete vertices. Tried to just hide the part I don't want. But even moving and scaling it in blender breaks the mesh in exactly the same way.

Edit2: Nah, moving doesn't break. Messing with vert count does. Tried again, but this time I only scaled the objects and hid them inside the object. But what should I do with the floor? Also, pynify seems to flip normals for some reason.

Edited July 13, 2024 by zhulikkulik

[adb3nj]

I've not looked in detail at what you're trying to do, but any edits you make in NifSkope and/or Blender won't allow you to go through it anyway, since the collision is generated separately. You can, theoretically, create new collision – KingGath has some YouTube tutorials – but I've always found it too much of a faff to bother with.

[pepperman35]

You should consider editing the nif within a 3D modeling program like Blender or 3ds Max as this will give you the most flexibility.  Of course you will need to spend time in those programs to become proficient.  There should be many youtube vids out there to help your learning process.

[zhulikkulik]

Okay, it's either: A) both Pynifly and Outfit Studio are broken (perhaps by NGU) or B) «One does not simply edit the nif» (c) and there is no option but to go through the whole process. I was really hoping I won't need to do it for such simple tasks and only for models that I'll make myself.

Tried to «export to obj->import obj into nifskope->open source object and copy all the nodes that you see». That seems to work, no infinite triangles and it doesn't break after I put it into scene. Now gotta find out how to make collisions.

[84Cronos]

On 7/13/2024 at 10:10 AM, zhulikkulik said:

I'm trying to remove some parts of TruckTrailer02 to make it possible to go through it, but it seems like I'm missing something important. Have tried two different ways - using blender and pynify and using OutfitStudio. All I need to do is: 1) Remove some faces from the front part. 2) Duplicate part of the floor to cover a hole in the mesh where there's no geometry.

It looks perfectly fine in nifskope, in blender and in OS. And upon first load it looks fine even in CK's preview. But then it turns into this as soon as I save the new object and/or put it into the cell:

 

It doesn't matter if I duplicate mesh as new object (new shape in OS and delete verts you don't need) or inside the object (just shift+d in blender edit mode). It doesn't even seem to be related to copied vertices as it breaks the same way if I only remove the verts and don't change anything else.

What is the correct way to do it?

 

Edit: Thought that maybe I just shouldn't delete vertices. Tried to just hide the part I don't want. But even moving and scaling it in blender breaks the mesh in exactly the same way.

Edit2: Nah, moving doesn't break. Messing with vert count does. Tried again, but this time I only scaled the objects and hid them inside the object. But what should I do with the floor? Also, pynify seems to flip normals for some reason.

The problem is that the NIF "TruckTrailer02" consists of BSMeshLODTriShape notes. I've had the same issues with those very notes. No matter what I did, they always ended up looking like that in game after altering them in any way. It might have something to do with Outfitstudio and the unofficial Blender plugin not being able to export them properly or there might be something else involved. However, I've found a workaround that works for me. Once you're done with your adjustments and you've your NIF exported follow these steps:

1. Create a backup of your NIF.

2. Open up your NIF in Nifskope and go to the parts that you edited, more specifically the BSMeshLODTriShape note and select it -> right click -> block -> convert -> Bethesda -> BSTrishape.

3. Save your file.

4. Test it in game

5. Rinse and repeat by converting the remaining notes to BSTrishapes if it's still f*#@ing up.

 

Edit: You will obviously need to create your own collision if you made bigger changes to the existing mesh.

[pepperman35]

See if this is something you can use.

FO4_TruckTrailer02_test.rar

[RoNin1971]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:25 PM, zhulikkulik said:

Okay, it's either: A) both Pynifly and Outfit Studio are broken (perhaps by NGU) or B) «One does not simply edit the nif» (c) and there is no option but to go through the whole process. I was really hoping I won't need to do it for such simple tasks and only for models that I'll make myself.

Tried to «export to obj->import obj into nifskope->open source object and copy all the nodes that you see». That seems to work, no infinite triangles and it doesn't break after I put it into scene. Now gotta find out how to make collisions.

I've been using pynifly with blender since first introduced. Works fine, for what I do. (Which is similar to what you tried) ... and how I do it.

I'm not to happy with the latest few versions of pynifly, so I'm still using an old one. (don't know the exact version anymore) which exports BSTriShape's, just as I want/need.

I import a model, remove all but the actual meshes, make my change & export it to a new (temp) nif file. I do the same for my collision geometry (to be) meshes. I then import the later into 3DS, create a compound rigidbody, assign a material & type & export it again using the official plugin.

 

From there it varies.

In this case I would copy the new mesh to (a copy of) the original, replacing the shape(s) in question.

Then copy the half-baked collision data to the original too. (& check if it all matches). This way I retain all original data besides my change.

Put the file into the "meshes" subdir of 'Elric' and then process it with ... Elric. This should finalize (and convert) both the shapes & collision. This is true for newer versions of pynifly as well.

Note: If you copied collision data from another nif file, Elric will remove it! So, in that case run it thru without and copy them back in after.

 

& on a side note, as it doesn't sound like you did, but:

Unless I missed a newer version which is for 4.0 and higher: DO NOT use a higher version of Blender 3.51 with the Pynifly plugin. It will not work in-game. (but looks fine everywhere else).

[zhulikkulik]

Thanks everyone! So, I've already sort of fixed the problem with the mesh itself. Exporting it to .obj works and I am yet to try what 84Cronos suggested. What I'm not quite sure about is the fact that I've scaled some brick walls which have bricks as LODTriShape but they seem to work just fine. 

I'm messing with other stuff right now but will try to figure out collisions hopefully in next couple of weeks.

RoNin1971, thank you!

Quote

Unless I missed a newer version which is for 4.0 and higher: DO NOT use a higher version of Blender 3.51 with the Pynifly plugin.

BadDogSkyrim's github states support for Blender 4.1 in April's release and the latest release is June 17.