csbx Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 (edited) Today I noticed that dialogue I had previously added for vanilla npcs wasn't showing up in game. Thinking it was some weird form change I made since the last version or a script problem or a seq file that needed regeneration, I replaced each element one at a time looking for a change. Nothing. But then I remembered JaySerpa suggesting for his mercenary mod that a re-load (for such a bug) may resolve things. Bingo. It did. I saved, re-loaded and suddenly the dialogue was there. But why for versions 1-64 of my mod is that not a problem and for version 65 and presumably all subsequent versions it is a problem ? Have you seen this ? Edited August 9 by csbx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csbx Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 (edited) Okay - here's what I've found in testing. 1. in re-testing, replacing the esp with the older one DOES resolve the problem (but could still be fragment change called from .esp as well--not necessarily form change) 2. Running past version that works normally, I added DLC as masters to .esp to match one of the differences in the versions and saved .esp. Bug returns ! V1 works perfectly re: dialogue while V2 has added dragonborn, dawnguard, hearthfires as Masters as the only difference. edit: I also noticed: 3. removing all masters (DLC) fixed bug, but then adding them again (sseedit) re-introduced it. Edited August 9 by csbx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMartyr Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 You are going to hate this, but I have had strange bugs too, the only cure I found was rolling back to working bug free version, and in the creation kit, manually bring the plugin back to speed the hard way... without loading or referencing the bugged version. Then it always bug free, and continues to be so, even with future version; in my experience, this a unknown corruption some how introduced via some means, mainly either CK or xEdit. My favourite Example is: a Cosmic Ray hit the PC while you were saving, LOL, It can happen, yeah the odds are against it, but it is not Zero. Only the Modding Gods will truly know what happened, and they speak in riddles Edit then there is this, bad sectors on the drive: had to run disk scan... I was lucky, I recovered it, it was CS Project. There is so many things that can go wrong with the PC, and the RAM.. that having nothing to do with Skyrim Mod Creation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMartyr Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 MY biggest fear is a firmware update, those are moments of utter undisputed unmigrated fear nothing will go wrong, from a simple power outage to anything else whatsoever.. PC Gods, I pray to thee, let me get through this @csbx I am aware you have back ups, but do you have off shore back ups incase you lose your back ups ? Yes a PC died on me, and just used my dedicated Skyrim Mega Account to retrieve my off shore back ups, what are your contingency plans? It can just be a HDD at mum or best friend, encrypted OFC, incase your house burns down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csbx Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 (edited) 7 hours ago, PeterMartyr said: MY biggest fear is a firmware update, those are moments of utter undisputed unmigrated fear nothing will go wrong, from a simple power outage to anything else whatsoever.. PC Gods, I pray to thee, let me get through this @csbx I am aware you have back ups, but do you have off shore back ups incase you lose your back ups ? Yes a PC died on me, and just used my dedicated Skyrim Mega Account to retrieve my off shore back ups, what are your contingency plans? It can just be a HDD at mum or best friend, encrypted OFC, incase your house burns down. Thanks, Peter ! Yep - backups are in the cloud. Rolling back is fine. It's only the most recent (unpublished) iteration that has the bug. If it were a cosmic ray I could at least blame the gods and be done with it. But in this case, I'm kind of stuck and can't proceed because the next step of the mod requires adding DLC as masters. But adding DLC as masters introduces the bug ! So I'm not sure I can do anything other than proceed with the bug embedded. I know - how immersive to tell users to not worry when at first there is no dialogue - just reload ! - then you have dialogue. I believe a single reload sorts out the problem for the rest of the game, but who knows ? Edited August 9 by csbx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csbx Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 So I remembered that the FormIds of the quest would change when adding masters and thought re-generating the seq file would be the solution. But that doesn't seem to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMartyr Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 FormID change, that should never happen, yeah it changes combined with the load order, but the mod formID should be the same.. this what I mean the load order is 00 to FF ( 2 characters) and and the mod form ID is 000800 or 000D62 (depending) to FFFFFF (6 characters) the quest is 000D63 for example and the only master is Skyrim now the quest is 01000D63 in the load order (both combined so 8 characters) now we add DC and DB it is 03000D63 all four game dlc's and mod combined and still 8 characters but if you remove the load order, it should be the same, and the formID 6 characters not 8 characters remains the same, 000D63, are you saying those 6 characters are changing? cos yeah that is major problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMartyr Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 the load order is important for building override records at load, but in the save it is ( with a grain of salt ) and very simply String : PluginName: hexadecimal : Quest 000D63 so adding master(s)should make no difference, nothing has changed, except the Header Data in the mod... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMartyr Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 is the time stamps of Skyrim and the DLC matching the load order? cos the stupid moronic creation kit, loads not according to load order, but time stamps.. maybe you need to redate your plugins? Don't Panic: this will download the latest Loot documentation Jul 30 2024 to your PC https://media.readthedocs.org/pdf/loot/latest/loot.pdf Search the PDF for "Redate Plugins" Quote Redate Plugins. . . ” is provided so that Skyrim and Skyrim Special Edition modders may set the load order for the Creation Kit. It is only available for Skyrim, and changes the timestamps of the plugins in its Data folder to match their current load order. A side effect of changing the timestamps is that any Steam Workshop mods installed will be re-downloaded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xkkmEl Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) My experience has been that if you add a master to a running game, the new master gets inserted in the middle of the load order, after the already loaded masters, but before all the esps. Thus, all the esps have their mod id byte increased by one. Conversely, removing a master (or converting it to an esp) changes the load order. The game engine knows how to deal with that, mostly; when you save and load, all these formId changes are fixed as long as the forms and other referenced objects are defined and referenced in esm or esp files. Where it breaks is where the formIds are stored by an skse plugin outside of the game engine; StorageUtil and JContainers won't adapt and keep referring to the old formId references, which no longer work. Actually, the mod id renumbering is visible in MO2 before reloading the game after adding/removing the master, so it could be that the behavior I have experienced is an MO2 thing more than a game engine thing. Edited August 9 by xkkmEl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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