Null reference in navmesh - problem or ignore?

[Username0815]

I have made a navmesh patch for the bettor junkwall mod that has a non functional doorway navmesh. The patch works in game afaik but F4Edit finds a null reference error. Is that save to ignore? Or did I screw something up? (screenshot attached)

Thx

 

 

[Qrsr]

Resave in CK and see what happens.

[Username0815]

On 9/23/2024 at 9:55 AM, Qrsr said:

Resave in CK and see what happens.

Thanks for the reply. I reloaded the file in CK as active plugin and resaved it. After this, the error in FO4Edit is gone, the file structure is also completely different after resaving the plugin.

If I am reading this data in Fo4Edit correctly, the door01A.nif is actually a vanilla asset, that was tweaked by betterjunkfences.
However, the author did not touch the navmesh, the data is identical. Thus, if I'm correct, this is a vanilla bug, which was apparently undiscovered.

 

Spoiler

 

The angles of the navmesh "wings" exceeds 45 degrees (see screenshot), which is to my knowledge too steep. Npcs for sure cannot cross. I walled in Abernathy farm and left only two doorways as access points.
Nobody could get in our out, neither companions, settlers or attackers, tested with SKK settlement attacks. I then flattened the angle of the navmesh and retested. The doorway becomes usable.

The only downside, I crashed during the SKK attack when I fired a flare gun indoors, something related to 0x001F1D6C, which is the navmesh cell of abernathy farm according to the crashlog. So maybe a complete enclosure is causing pathfinding issues,
and invalid paths can cause crashes?

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

Edited September 24, 2024 by Username0815

[Qrsr]

Interesting, first if possible create a spoiler tab for the images since nexus does not downscale them by default

Otherwise,

7 hours ago, Username0815 said:

and invalid paths can cause crashes?

Yes it can. Im not 100 percent sure but expect the vanilla game to restore what the CK does as well when creating a new game. So it should be a visual thing noticable in FO4Edit or else. Fyi, if you do this with all NPC records you will see more than half of them have new templates and entries all over the place but it works without doing it already, just visual.

Im not sure or can say for cetain its because of the NavMesh though. Try to override the NavMesh grid with the vanilla Grid and save, load the game test with a forced settlement attack, best with a new game, since the game stores any information in the save and if you override the NavMesh of an object its doomed to crash. Then report. You must do some scientific research routines here otherwise you wont fix it so it will be time consuming.

But always test something like this with a new game without any other mods !

[RaidersClamoring]

Looks like the object bounds have been changed substantially between the different versions. 
vanilla:    (-127, -9, -14), (120, 67, 267)
bjf:        (-128, -6, 0), (128, 0, 220)
patch:     (-134, -9, -14), (126, 70, 280)
What this means for this particular asset I don't know, but maybe something to investigate.

[Username0815]

On 9/24/2024 at 1:16 PM, Qrsr said:

Try to override the NavMesh grid with the vanilla Grid and save, load the game test with a forced settlement attack, best with a new game, since the game stores any information in the save and if you override the NavMesh of an object its doomed to crash. Then report. You must do some scientific research routines here otherwise you wont fix it so it will be time consuming.

But always test something like this with a new game without any other mods !

I did not know that object related information other than a reference is stored in a save, that is insane game design, what if Bethesda made a patch themselves?

I have overridden the navmesh grid of my patch as you suggested with the vanilla one and it seems to work as intended but thats guesswork really as my game is somewhat unstable.

I then tested the junkwall door in a complete vanilla game and its broken there as well, unpassable by npcs, thus the broken navmesh is a vanilla bug as suspected.

Sadly, Vortex then messed up and broke the fresh installment and I could not test this further with the patch I have made for better junk walls. 
So, I'm not 100% sure this wont cause issues down the line. As for the object bounds, that is interesting but I have no clue what to do about it.

 

In conclusion I will refrain from uploading any patches whatsoever before I break someones game. Thanks for the input and perhaps someone who has more experience can address this.

 

 

 

[Qrsr]

Use MO2 for such kind of testing or no mod organizer at all, use the default.

Then, start FO4, and type in the game menu, coc SanctuaryExt or something you will be teleportated directly into a new game without having to deal with Vault 111.

Then test.

I will have it on my list, if i find some time i will help you.

[Username0815]

Ok. I'll employ MO2.

3 hours ago, Qrsr said:

I will have it on my list, if i find some time i will help you.

Thanks, figuring out how to fix this would be interesting as I have identified other old mods that would need a patch for their navmeshes as well.

 

[Qrsr]

THere are many such vanilla objects which break the NavMesh, also PlaceEverywhere will increase the likelihood to destroy and break the NavMesh of a cell.