Question about extracting NPC body meshes

[SomeGr8Reward]

This has probably been asked a million times before, but I have encountered a rather complicated issue regarding the extraction of character models from the game files (or perhaps only complicated due to my limited experience). I am somewhat new to modding/file extracting and started playing around with BAE and BAMgr to unpack and work with the meshes and textures of the game. I have done hours of research on this topic and can't seem to find a clear answer. Now the issue; I notice that the NPCs all have various body shapes and heights based on the body generation sliders used in-game. For example Cait is skinnier and slightly shorter than say, Curie or Piper. I already know how to find an NPC's specific FaceGen mesh and the generic Female Body mesh but when extracting, the models do not match obviously. How would I go about extracting the Female Body mesh but with Cait's specific body dimensions and morph applied so they match? How does the game determine her body morph from the files and where is the body slider data stored for each character in the files? This is all using the base vanilla game files without any mods applied.

Sorry if this question sounds basic coming from a beginner. Any information or help from the experts in this area would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[subaverage]

I am not sure that I understand you right and I am also not exactly sure that I am right. I believe that there is only one body mesh for females. The game has fix settings for unique npcs and calculates the others. You could open the CK and load Fallout4.esm as actice file and have the object window open. Then under "Actor" search for example for Cait. Doulbeclick on "CompanionCait" and in the now opening window open the last register card "Character Gen Morphs". There you see the complete slider set. You could also use Looksmenu to see and change Cait's appearance. Using unique Followers can be done with this: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/26108 or with the ingame sliders of Looskmenu, but then you would need an adjustable body replacer.

[SomeGr8Reward]

Basically I'm trying to export the unique NPC models with their body dimensions intact rather than using the base body mesh (which doesn't match their visual in-game models) to sculpt and manipulate them in another 3D modeling program. I was hoping it would be as simple as finding their unique body meshes in the files like with many other games, but surprised to find Fallout calculates all characters based on body dimension data applied to a base mesh. Which obviously makes this process more complicated now. What I find even more strange is that their FaceGen mesh data is actually stored in the files and extractable but not any unique body mesh data for them that I can see or find. It looks like using the Creation Kit might be my best option which I haven't tried yet. Do you know if there is a way to find the character morph data for each fixed NPC using just the BAE?

Edited October 28 by SomeGr8Reward

[subaverage]

1 hour ago, SomeGr8Reward said:

Do you know if there is a way to find the character morph data for each fixed NPC using just the BAE?

Unfortunately no, but I wouldn't be surprised when there is no extra storage for them. You find them all in the Creation Kit, but I didn't find an export option. Still it might be a possibility to use Looksmenu and generate the presets with it.

[SomeGr8Reward]

Thanks to your very helpful tip, I've now used the creation kit to find the NPCs' body slider data and my end goal is to have a named NPC with their appropriate body size as a workable 3D mesh. Unfortunately the CK does not have an export function to do that that as far as I can tell. Looksmenu is an option, but trying to streamline my workflow as much as possible without having to boot up the game every time. Continuing to use Cait as an example, I assume I would then have to use a body mesh generator like Bodyslide to recreate her vanilla body size mesh using the numbers from her slider data?

This seems like an overly labor-intensive process for such a simple action the game is able compile effortlessly; fascinating but infuriating on the technical side. I wish it were as simple as finding the character and just exporting their intact model on the spot the way it is being rendered. Unless there is some tool for this game I am unaware of that can do that.

[subaverage]

Acc. to my understanding (maybe someone proofs me wrong) you cannot recreate a npc specific body mesh, because there is only one. The rest is calculation with the help of the triangle. The values you find in the CK under Actor/ e. g. Companion Cait under Traits and "Weight". These values would be copied by Looksmenu. But it's still calculation and the base mesh is always the same. If you want to give your companions other body shapes you can do this with Looksmenu and the triangle for the body shape. The new values will be saved in your savegames.

If you want to have more options in changings you need an adjustable body replacer like CBBE. You can then use the new ingame sliders of Looksmenu. If you want to create different body meshes that are really saved as different meshes you need something like "Unique Player and Followers Redux" and "Bodyslide and Outfit Studio".  With the second mod you create different presets for different characters and build the relating mesh files and with the first mod you can store the created meshes in separate folders for Cait, Curie, Piper, etc during creation or later with copy and paste. But still the base mesh would be CBBE (e.g. Curvy). You can adjust almost everything, but not the height afaik and still the changings with the triangle will only be stored in your savegames.

[SomeGr8Reward]

4 hours ago, subaverage said:

Acc. to my understanding (maybe someone proofs me wrong) you cannot recreate a npc specific body mesh, because there is only one. The rest is calculation with the help of the triangle. The values you find in the CK under Actor/ e. g. Companion Cait under Traits and "Weight". These values would be copied by Looksmenu. But it's still calculation and the base mesh is always the same. 

Ok I think I understand now, so the distortion of the generic body mesh we see is purely computational using the values provided by the slider data. The body shape is being passively rendered from the base body mesh and not actively deforming a mesh that can be exported as a unique model; there is no unique mesh to extract, just the generic body being used. Meaning what I'm trying to accomplish is basically impossible, unless there was some way to apply these values to the body mesh using an external 3D program that would actually deform it.

Which brings up another question, how would a modder create a new outfit/armor for the player character and NPCs to wear using the vanilla data? Let's say I want to create a new outfit for Cait or any other NPC to wear that would conform to their body dimensions similar to how the game does it, without a body replacer mod. If that's even possible? It has something to do with replacing an outfit nif in the game files and making use of an esp file, from the little information I've found on the topic.

[SomeGr8Reward]

After further research, I found an answer to my last question. For anyone else that comes across this thread and is wanting to work on or mod outfits/armor for the vanilla game meshes without body replacers, here are a couple useful tutorials I dug up that explain the basics:

Arideya's Corner — Arideya’s guide to modding FO4 outfits, outfit...

Creating an armour for Fallout 4. Part 1 - Nexus Mods Wiki