ParallaxGen Output policy revision

[Ferroxius]

Following some recent discussions I had with several users I feel it would be worth revisiting your policy on allowing uploads on the output of tools such as ParallaxGen for Skyrim

With the recent introduction of PBR from Community Shaders, mods taking advantage of PBR will become more commonplace and popular. And because all PBR mods currently require ParallaxGen to function, its usage will become more and more prevalent, and their output tailored to specific load orders will be of great utility and convenience to collection users.

Currently you allow DynDOLOD outputs for modlists and collections but not ParallaxGen and
I feel this is a bit of a double standard for the following reasons:

1. Both ParallaxGen and DynDOLOD create modified versions of textures/meshes from other mods.

2. Both ParallaxGen and DynDOLOD create esps from their process that have the mods they used as required masters, thus making the output useless without the original mods present

Therefore I feel they are technically similar in their process and should be covered with the same rules, whether that is to prohibit both or allow both

[dabiggieboss]

Fully agree. An even better example are bodyslide outputs. They generate FULLY functional new meshes. I think standard policy should be that parallaxgen outputs are allowed to be uploaded ON THE CONDITION that the modlist or collection that uses them also include the original mesh files as downloads, no matter what.

Edited Thursday at 11:51 AM by Pickysaurus
Moved from https://feedback.nexusmods.com/posts/3387/parallaxgen-output-policy-revision

[Creapygeek]

I agree, the current policies on uploading ParallaxGen outputs are presenting challenges for modlist authors striving to incorporate next-gen features. Given that other tools like xLodGen, TexGen, DynDOLOD, and Bodyslide have more flexible guidelines, it highlights an opportunity for policy consistency that could better support the community's efforts to enhance visuals and functionality in modding.

Edited Thursday at 11:51 AM by Pickysaurus
Moved from https://feedback.nexusmods.com/posts/3387/parallaxgen-output-policy-revision

[Pickysaurus]

I hadn't even heard of Parallaxgen before today - I've not played Skyrim in a while! I will try and read up on exactly how it all works but @JustThatKing (who is on annual leave) has kindly given me a little more context on this issue.

Quote

Parallaxgen wholesale redistributes meshes, it just adds a couple flags. 

If this is the case you'd need permission from the original creators of the assets to distribute this content, as is the standard for any modification to mod content created by other users. The onus would be on the mod list curator to obtain that permission. Alternatively, they can provide instructions for the user to run the required tool at the end of the process to generate the required files themselves. It doesn't look like it does something so fundamental the game would be broken without it. 

As far as sharing it if you do have the required permission. Collections have always allowed you to ship "Bundled mods" with them and this is a perfect use case for using that. Similarly, we allow binary patches to be shipped which may be a way to include the tweaks to the models without distributing the entire file. It also prevents the spam of mod pages that contain content which is entirely non-functional without a specific mod list installed. If you're not using Collections or need to use a mod page for some reason, there should only really be a single mod page per mod list and it contains all the supplementary files - unless there's a compelling reason to split it up. 

Happy to discuss further, but I'm going to be AFK for the holidays shortly so I don't currently have the time to dive into the nitty gritty myself. 

[Styyxus]

4 hours ago, dabiggieboss said:

Fully agree. An even better example are bodyslide outputs. They generate FULLY functional new meshes. I think standard policy should be that parallaxgen outputs are allowed to be uploaded ON THE CONDITION that the modlist or collection that uses them also include the original mesh files as downloads, no matter what.

i fail to see how the permissions are any different to other outputs that are allowed like mentioned in the message i quoted, except that changing what's allowed would break a ton of collections. To me that sounds like "others are allowed cause they have been allowed for a while now", which definitely isn't a great base to have for permissions and rules.

[bobrobbow]

Yes the output of the tool does modify and then output meshes from the mods the tool runs on. But it also produces an esp that has many of those mods as enabled masters, making those outputs partially useless without the original mods.

In this respect it is very similar to dyndolod , in that dyndolod outputs modified versions of textures etc, and produces an esp that has required mods as masters.

Yes the parallaxgen outputted meshes are more "useable" in isolation, in their modified form, than dyndolod outputs, but that is a matter of feasible work required to make them useable, and not a clear difference in the technical end result, both package up modified other mods' assets.

Same with Bodyslide output but that is an even clearer case, as that can output *completely* useable meshes .

Currently bodyslide output and dyndolod outputs are allowed to be uploaded to nexusmods for the purpose of a collection or modlist, seems parallaxgen output might be pushing the envelope a *bit* in comparison to dyndolod, but not much.

In terms of delta-patching, that is a possibility, though the resulting size of that could vary hugely.

[SpringHeelJon]

4 hours ago, dabiggieboss said:

Fully agree. An even better example are bodyslide outputs. They generate FULLY functional new meshes. I think standard policy should be that parallaxgen outputs are allowed to be uploaded ON THE CONDITION that the modlist or collection that uses them also include the original mesh files as downloads, no matter what.

This. There is also absolutely no compelling reason to remove the original meshes from your list afterwards anyway. You will need them when you next make a change and need to re run ParallaxGen. 
I think there may be some misunderstanding of how the tool is actually used. It’s to patch your existing modified meshes to add flags. The only reason that the mesh is duplicated is because it’s been patched. It’s pretty nonsensical to think you would then use this patched output standalone in some way.