Why do placed objects saved in an ESP default to persistent ?

[SKKmods]

(1) Placed objects/actors saved by Creation Kit in an ESM format file default to non persistent to reduce memory and processing load when the object is not in the active uGridsToLoad around the player.

(2) Placed objects/actors saved by Creation Kit in an ESP format file default to persistent so they are always loaded in memory.

Anyone know why ... cui bono ?

[LarannKiar]

It seems to me the native code intentionally does this so I think it is to help/speed up development. When the developers need to make a large amounts of references, quests, etc., the ability to MoveTo() basically any of them is probably very handy.

Out of curiosity, I made an F4SE plugin now and bypassed the Master flag check.. the game could load, ESM order in the load order got messed up and distant refs from an ESP weren't loaded.

[Qrsr]

This makes me ask, the game holds all Texture files in the Persitent world space.

Texture files such as Water Puddles, Blood Puddles, etc.

If i wanted to move them to their correct world space reference, how?

By create an override patch and flag it ESM? Fo4Edit lately automatically flags certain objects and referenced objects Persistent, and using it for unflagging the persitent flag wont work.

Would this reduce load of all the texture files? Or have any benefit at all?

EDIT: I can tell you this and thats the real reason im asking, the more objects are part of an override patch, the longer it takes for the CK to load the override patch. The more objects of those overrides are replaced by new objects even more time will the CK need to load, up to many minutes ... one exampe, replace the cloud objects by something different something like a replace 000 object to hide these, then reload in CK and see it will take minutes to load ... 

now, if SKK said they are loaded all the time ... why not undo and see if it can increase ingame load times? ... just an idea.

[LarannKiar]

5 hours ago, Qrsr said:

This makes me ask, the game holds all Texture files in the Persitent world space.

Texture files such as Water Puddles, Blood Puddles, etc.

If i wanted to move them to their correct world space reference, how?

By create an override patch and flag it ESM? Fo4Edit lately automatically flags certain objects and referenced objects Persistent, and using it for unflagging the persitent flag wont work.

Would this reduce load of all the texture files? Or have any benefit at all?

EDIT: I can tell you this and thats the real reason im asking, the more objects are part of an override patch, the longer it takes for the CK to load the override patch. The more objects of those overrides are replaced by new objects even more time will the CK need to load, up to many minutes ... one exampe, replace the cloud objects by something different something like a replace 000 object to hide these, then reload in CK and see it will take minutes to load ... 

now, if SKK said they are loaded all the time ... why not undo and see if it can increase ingame load times? ... just an idea.

Reference 3D and textures aren't kept in the memory when the persistent ref is not in the loaded area regardless of persistence (by Fallout 4, I don't know whether the Creation Kit does but I doubt it).

Having too many loose files can increase the loading time of the Creation Kit. I think if you remove the Persistent flag in FO4Edit and it should automatically move the ref to the non persistent Worldspace record.

[Qrsr]

20 minutes ago, LarannKiar said:

I think if you remove the Persistent flag in FO4Edit and it should automatically move the ref to the non persistent Worldspace record.

That is correct, and its a very good technique to track down unneeded Navmesh when unflagging the transition door of a persistent world space.

Unfortunately if certain references are unflagged, FO4Edit will flag them and CK too. I dont know how to circumvent this, if you say its not higher load times in game ok.

What im  telling you it can increase load times in the CK absurdly high!

[niston]

Quote

Placed objects/actors saved by Creation Kit in an ESP format file default to persistent

I came across this a while ago on xedit discord:

Food for thought.

[SKKmods]

When I use the word "persistent" I mean the object can be referenced in memory, or in that language "has an open handle" which many would call a pointer.

ALTHOUGH that last line is concerning and confusing "persistent is actually loaded/doing whatever the thing would do".

If something is not 3d loaded outside of the loaded uGrids what do thing possibly do apart form updating travel packages over ticks ?

They are not 3d rendered (call Equip or Unequip on an unloaded persistent actor) so there is no collision or interaction or dialog or ... so what is the "thing" they would do ?