PC Buy (not build) Help Wanted

[TLymond]

Ok, so I've been talking about replacing my main home gaming desktop for about the past six months. Time to pull the trigger.

 

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[TL;DR: Where can I cut costs with least impact? CPU (i5 vs. i7), Mobo (non-SLI), drives (non-SSD), GPU (nVidia GTX660 vs GTX770), or CPU cooling (120mm vs 240mm). Limit: US$1400.

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My machine will be six years old in April, and over the years I have upgraded everything except the mobo, PS, and CPU. Needs to be put out to pasture.

 

I'm looking to get a gaming machine that will take me through the next several years without wishing I'd gone for just that "little bit more". I don't mind having to buy a new/better component sometime down the road. I do mind not even being able to do so because of limitations in other parts of the system. (For example: I currently cannot install a high-end video card in my case. There's just not enough room for a double-height card, and the 400 watt PS couldn't drive one anyway.)

 

I am willing to move the Blu-ray drive (not just a reader, it's a Blu-ray writer as well. Long story...) and one-or-more (have three) 1TB Seagate 7200rpm HDDs over to the new machine. Even willing to move the Win8.1 Pro license to the new machine, and leave the Win7 license on the old one.

 

My budget is US$1200 - US$1400.

 

So, lots of options, right? Except... I WANT FAST, AND I WANT QUIET.

 

When I price my dream machine on CyberPowerPC.com, it comes to $1600.

 

That includes the "quiet" option for everything that offers it. Case, Case Fans, PS, and CPU Cooling system. And of course, SSD vs. HDD.

 

There appear to be five areas where my choices have hundred-dollar-plus impacts:

 

1. i7-4770K @ 3.4GHz is about $100 more than the i5-4670K @ 3.4GHz.

 

2. An "SLI certifled" mobo is about $125 more than a "Crossfire" one. But I use nVidia cards exclusively. (Go on. Convince me otherwise!)

 

3. A 120GB SSD (for just the O/S) is about $125 more than a 2TB WD "Blue" HDD.

 

4. The nVidia GTX660 is about $125 less than the GTX770 and got great reviews... 18 months ago. It still has a lower power consumption than the GTX770. But will I be sorry a year from now? (I am NOT willing to spend what it takes to get a 780-or-better!)

 

5. The "silent" versions of the CPU cooler (240mm vs 120mm), and case fans are about $125 more than for the default ones.

 

There may be other places I can look for cost savings, but those are the ones I've identified.

 

Any/All help, or just opinions, would be appreciated! :yes:

[hoofhearted4]

alright the first thing id say is to build it yourself. your bound to shave a couple hundred just by picking the parts yourself.

 

as per your list though:

 

1) get the cheaper CPU. unless you need the Hyperthreading of the 4770k. otherwise you wont even notice the difference between the two

 

2) if you plan on going SLI then get the SLI board. ill tell you it shouldnt cost you $125 more then a non SLI board (going back to building it yourself and picking your own parts) if you dont plan on going SLI, then no need to get a board that can. if you need to save money though, and the Xfire board is cheaper, then its worth mentioning that by and large, AMD cards are cheaper then nvidia cards. so youd be saving money in two areas by getting that Xfire board. if you were handpicking this part, some good brands are Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, EVGA and ASRock.

 

3) you can fit more then just your OS on a 120gb SSD just fyi. but SSDs arent really meant to go solo unless you get like a 500gb SSD or two. otherwise you should be getting an HDD to go along with the SSD. this is an area you might end up spending more. i would highly recommend the SSD. esp if you want fast and quiet. maybe look into getting a 1TB instead of a 2TB. some good SSDs are Crucial and Kingston and good HDDs are Western Digital Seasonic or Toshiba.

 

4) I have not followed GPUs since i build my PC a little over a year ago (running a 7950 in mine) so im not sure whats good and whats not. i just did a quick Google search on the 660 vs 770 and the concencious is to get the 770. obviously if youre trying to build a PC to last as long as possible, newer is better. however a couple articles mentioned the 760 being just as good, but cheaper. at a difference of 10-20FPS depending on the game and settings. to some this is huge, others not so much. and it doesnt really matter too much if the FPS difference is over 60 FPS anyways (ie 100FPS vs 80 FPS, both will look the same in a 60FPS game) i only did a quick search though, you might want to look into it more if the 760 is an option for you. if its only 660 vs 770 though, id say 770. good brands if you handpicked would be Gigabyte, Asus, MSI or EVGA

 

5) what CPU cooler is it? a heatsink or a loop (ie H110 or something?) a loop will be cooler and quieter but more expensive. 240mm vs 120mm will just figure how much cooler you want it. though a 120mm would be quieter because less fans. case fans though, depends on how many you are getting. $125 is enough to outfit an entire case with like 8-10 silent fans. Corsair Air Series fans (what i use) are silent. they are somewhat expensive at $33 for two, but worth it. at that price you are looking at 8 fans in your case for the $125. if the PC you are building swaps out less then that for the $125 jump, it may be worth just getting the normal fans and swapping them out yourself.....silence also depends on the case. I have a Fractal Arc Midi (there is an Arc Midi 2 out now) and it has rubber silencing foam on the panels to help quiet it down. keeping your fans on low through software if possible also keeps everything quiet. i have 7 fans in my PC (4 120mm and 3 140mm) and i cant hear the thing at all.

 

another possible area to save money is the PSU. not by getting a cheap one (never buy a cheap PSU) but just the wattage. the difference between a 600W and a 1200W can be a couple hundred dollars at times, esp on an online builder. so look at what you selected. (a quick PSU calc, gives you a range of 475W (one GPU) to 685W (SLI) and those in themselves are usually slightly overestimated. so even if you plan on going SLI you shouldnt need more then an 750-800W PSU and thats still high. again if you were to hand pick this item, youd wanna look for something thats 80 Plus Gold (efficiency) by either Corsair or Seasonic id say. i personally run a 650W Seaonic PSU in my PC with the aforementioned 7 fans, a 240mm cooling loop, the 7950 GPU, 3570k CPU, 16GB RAM (1600) 1 SSD and 2 HDDs, and some LEDs. and i believe Id still be fine if I went Xfire. but note that my GPUs use less wattage then a 770 (though not too much)

 

as i said, many of these options would be easier to save money if you picked the specific parts yourself and built it yourself (since you dont have to charge yourself to build it) not only that but on a per part basis youll be getting better parts in general, name brands, etc. but i understand this isnt always an option for some people, but i figured id stress the point a little.

 

ill also note that any brands i recommended are personal opinion. theres always going to be people who swear for one or against another. i only have experience with some of the listed names, others are just ones i heard talked highly of back when I was researching my PC. I mention this because I'm not looking to start a Brand War debate on anything. I simply wanted to give you some brands to look at if you decided to look into building your own PC.

Edited January 26, 2014 by hoofhearted4

[FMod]

So, lots of options, right? Except... I WANT FAST, AND I WANT QUIET.

 

That includes the "quiet" option for everything that offers it. Case, Case Fans, PS, and CPU Cooling system. And of course, SSD vs. HDD.

If you want something done right, do it yourself.

 

Fast and quiet is difficult to do, you're not getting it in a prebuilt system. The best you'll get with "quiet options" (quotes are not optional) is not-quite-so-loud and not very fast.

 

You want something that just plain isn't offered, it isn't possible with the way mass market systems are built, since e.g. just messing up thermal compound application, as workers are guaranteed to sometimes do, will break it. Specialist builders offer quiet, but not fast, since there's a very small overlap between the two markets.

[TLymond]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

 

Sounds like I can go with the i5 and the non-SLI board and save the couple-hundred bucks I need to get under budget.

 

I'm going with pre-built because I don't have the time/interest to do it myself. I've built/scavenged/cannibalized systems before. The exercise has lost its appeal for me, and I want the hassle-free factor of knowing that if there's a problem there's somebody else who's job it is to fix it!

 

CyberPowerPC have a huge selection of components, and allow you to customize your build to a fare-thee-well. They offer "Noise Reduction" add-ons and "Silent" models for almost everything possible (fans, coolers, PS, cases.)

 

I'll be doing a little more research into the SSD vs HDD vs hybrid drives, then make my decision in the next week-or-so.

 

Would still like input on which graphics card (GTX 660 vs 770) to use. That's another US$125 right there!

[hoofhearted4]

Would still like input on which graphics card (GTX 660 vs 770) to use. That's another US$125 right there!

your best bet is to Google it, like i did. youll find forums upon forums of opinions, graphs, comparisons, etc.

[FMod]

They don't even offer exact options for most video cards - the noisiest part of a modern gaming PC - you just get a "major brand". At most you can pick a EVGA which aren't really quiet, certainly not on par with Asus and MSI designs.

They don't offer any of the cases specifically designed for quiet PCs. No high-end air coolers (quieter than water), though that won't matter with the GPU.

Combined with other "major brand" parts and put in a case with windows and open grates, even if part of the case is covered by foam (but not the holes) - it's going to be quieter than a vacuum cleaner, but by how much exactly is a mystery without any promises.

 

I want the hassle-free factor of knowing that if there's a problem there's somebody else who's job it is to fix it!

 

Let's take a look at how this works.

If you buy an iphone, and it goes wrong, you take it to the nearest mall and often get it replaced outright; could be one reason it's still so popular.

 

But your PC builder doesn't have outlets in every mall. It doesn't send a tech to your home either.

If your PC doesn't power on, you put it back in the box, ship it to the RMA address, get by without a PC for a month and eventually receive it fixed. All fine, but it's surely been tested to power on.

 

If it does power on, but a PWM fan was connected to a 3-pin and runs at full speed, the "major brand" videocard turned out to be a very noisy brand, the CPU cooler blows hot air into the case, and the SSD was connected to a non-native port - will you then put it in a box, ship back, and wait as they decide on whether it is a defect at all?

 

 

Anyway, if your mind is set, and "quiet" being subject to luck is accepted:

[TL;DR: Where can I cut costs with least impact? CPU (i5 vs. i7), Mobo (non-SLI), drives (non-SSD), GPU (nVidia GTX660 vs GTX770), or CPU cooling (120mm vs 240mm). Limit: US$1400.

CPU, CPU cooling, motherboard.

Do not get a 660 instead of a 770, or get a HDD instead of SSD. The impact of either one of these changes alone is greater than the difference between all other options combined (CPU+cooling+mobo+RAM).

[obobski]

I agree with the suggestion to build it yourself, but if you aren't willing or able (and I do understand the sentiment - I'm not passing a value judgment on your choice of how to spend your money), I'd honestly say please pick someone better than CyberPower/iBuyPower - over the years I've heard nothing but consistently TERRIBLE things about them. They usually cheap-out on the parts you aren't being explicitly told about - like the power supply, wiring, fans, etc.

 

If you want to buy something that's basically off-the-shelf turnkey and will be handled by the manufacturer in the event ANYTHING goes wrong (from it burning itself out running the latest Skyrim ENB or your kid sister spilling a pop into it), as the saying goes: "dude, you're getting a Dell!" Their warranties are absolutely top-notch (and if you pay the ~$70 extra, they really will cover your kid sister spilling a pop into it), and in some cases it does mean they send a tech to your house (I know for their professional equipment (Precision and OptiPlex; your budget is actually enough to cover a mid-tier Precision, but you'd have to buy a separate graphics adapter and install that yourself, because as far as I know they will not ship the thing out with a GeForce or Radeon card under the hood (and the Quadro or FirePro that will give you high performance in games costs more than you have to spend)) it really does work this way - next-day replacement or repair is a legitimate feature).

 

Anyways, regarding what you specifically want:

 

Quiet and powerful can work, but you have to better qualify "powerful" - what games do you actually play? What games do you forsee yourself playing in the future? (I know this is like asking you to pull out a crystal ball to an extent, but think about it: do you keep up with the latest Battlefield releases? Or are you still happily playing Skyrim and half-heartedly following the rumors surrounding Fallout 4?) How quiet does it really have to be? (absolute silence ain't gonna happen, and I'm guessing you don't want a rack server either, so that leaves you somewhere in-between - figure out where exactly your limit is) And finally, what kinds of compromises are you willing to make with respect to game play? (Does everything have to run full max ultra with maxed AA and AF just to be "tolerable" or are you okay running things at medium settings or turning down draw distance here and there (especially if this means you get closer to quiet)?).

 

Oh, and another all-important factor in the discussion of performance: What are you plugging this PC into? A TV? A monitor? That isn't really what matters - what actually matters is what resolution does it need to output realistically.

 

The quick'n'dirty to the above questions: If you're happy with somewhat older titles (like Skyrim), don't need the latest and greatest new games, are okay turning settings down here and there, and aren't trying to drive a super high resolution monitor, you can get away with a lot more pedestrian hardware - which means that you will spend less, and have a quieter machine. If you need the latest and greatest at full max ultra you're gonna have to budge on either your budget (double or triple it) or the noise requirement.

 

I agree with the first guy (hoofhearted4) on the PSU thing, and would add that realistically by the time you'll probably need to upgrade the graphics setup to improve performance, you will probably be better off replacing the card you started with vs adding a second card for SLI/CrossFire (which means your power requirements won't change a whole lot - high end graphics cards have run right around 200W for the last 5-6 years, while performance-per-watt has improved pretty dramatically).

 

Another thing I'd add, and I know this isn't a popular opinion, but: I'd drop the SSD. I know, I know, "it's a big deal, it's a huge difference, you need an SSD - it makes the system so responsive!!!" Well, yes and no. A quality SSD can read and seek faster than a conventional mechanical drive, which means that data stored on it can be accessed faster - usually the biggest "wow factor" here is that you can get Windows to start up faster (because it can load itself into RAM faster); big. deal. That doesn't do a *thing* for gaming performance. If your games are stored on the SSD, they can potentially benefit with faster load times, faster start times, etc depending on how the game (more specifically the game engine) handles file read/write operations (remember the system still has RAM and cache and developers are well aware that ROM is comparatively slow). But the SSD will not (and can not) influence things like MIPS, fill rate, etc - your processors will still process at whatever their abilities are. If you had an unlimited budget, I'd say go ahead and get SSDs - they're neat, they're quiet, and having your machine boot up super-duper fast is cheeky. But you don't have an unlimited budget - you need to efficiently spend your ~$1300, and you also want the thing to be reliable; buying a cheapo small SSD isn't a good way to do that. Put the money into an equivalently priced hard-disk that will offer you substantially more storage, and probably be more reliable in the long run (note that I'm not saying all SSDs are unreliable - but the really cheap ones usually aren't all that great (speed OR reliability)). Down the road when you have ~$200 to spend on the thing, you can do it right and add in a nice Intel/Samsung/etc unit and see what's up.