US flag 'offends' people inside the US.

[pheo3309]

 

A synonym doesn't mean that it is defined the same as the other...

That is, literally, what "synonym" means.

 

 

 

No one was being offended. People were being provoked.

As I illustrated above, these both mean the same thing. It is fine if you want to apply your own personal definitions to these terms, but for the rest of us they are interchangeable terms.

 

 

I am sure if you were in charge of the students on this campus and were liable for their well being you would probably do the same thing.

If any group of students were attacking any other group of students, for any reason whatsoever, I would expel those students. If a kid born in Mexico decided to wear a shirt with a Mexican flag on US independence day and any of the other students decided to attack him for wearing that shirt I would expel those violent students. I would not blame the student who was attacked for "provoking" the other students, and I would not demand that he invert his shirt to prevent offending the other students.

 

Reading carefully seems to be not your forte...

I think you meant to say "Reading carefully seems not to be your forte....". Did I read that carefully enough?

 

Regarding the rest of your post, I don't dispute that the school administration was within their rights in prohibiting the shirts. I do think they did the politically correct thing instead of the "right" thing, which would have been to recognize and uphold any student's right to express themselves in a civil way and refusing to capitulate to the will of a group of violent students.

 

 

Right... This is going in circles. The words aren't universal. "That post provokes me" doesn't mean that it offends, does it? All it says to me, is that statement says that it's getting a rise. You can get a rise out of someone and not be offensive. This is why we're asking where it says specifically where it says offend. Where is the evidence that supports the claim?

[colourwheel]

 

I am sure if you were in charge of the students on this campus and were liable for their well being you would probably do the same thing.

 

If any group of students were attacking any other group of students, for any reason whatsoever, I would expel those students. If a kid born in Mexico decided to wear a shirt with a Mexican flag on US independence day and any of the other students decided to attack him for wearing that shirt I would expel those violent students. I would not blame the student who was attacked for "provoking" the other students, and I would not demand that he invert his shirt to prevent offending the other students.

 

I am sure anyone would be expelled for violently attacking someone else on school grounds but that's beyond the point...

 

Who do you think will be blamed if someone gets seriously injured or even looking to the extreme possibility of someone being killed when you "know" a situation on campus can be avoided when you're the one liable for your students? If you ask me the entire administration will be blamed and this story wouldn't be about banning flag t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo day. It would probably be a story about an administrations failure to prevent violence on campus after being fair warned of the potential risks without taking appropriate action...

Edited February 6, 2014 by colourwheel

[MajKrAzAm]

@pheo, ripple, color

 

You are being pedantic in your argument. You and several others have conceded that wearing the American flag is provocative. This is bad enough, and would tell a normal person all they needed to know about the state of social cohesion in the US. There is no way this can be spun without being pedantic. Now, you will have to accept the disorder and disunity that results from this state of affairs.

Edited February 5, 2014 by MajKrAzAm

[ripple]

 

Regarding the rest of your post, I don't dispute that the school administration was within their rights in prohibiting the shirts. I do think they did the politically correct thing instead of the "right" thing, which would have been to recognize and uphold any student's right to express themselves in a civil way and refusing to capitulate to the will of a group of violent students.

 

If three trolls showed up at a Martin Luther King Day Service with confederate flags, the 'right thing' would not be to cancel the entire service. Feeding the trolls is not the 'right thing.'

 

In this case, taking steps to ensure the safety of the kids in the school with the least amount of disruption, regardless of who they are, was the 'right thing.'

Edited February 5, 2014 by ripple

[TRoaches]

@MajKrAzam: Well said!

 

 

If three trolls showed up at a Martin Luther King Day Service with confederate flags, the 'right thing' would not be to cancel the entire service. Feeding the trolls is not the 'right thing.'

 

In this case, taking steps to ensure the safety of the kids in the school with the least amount of disruption, regardless of who they are, was the 'right thing.'

Nobody has advocated cancelling anything. I have no idea what you are talking about there, or what relevance it has to the topic.

 

If three trolls showed up at a MLK day service wearing inflammatory t-shirts and they were violently attacked the police would not simply look the other way while the attacks occurred, because being offended/provoked by a t-shirt is not a sufficient reason to violently attack another person. They would intervene on the behalf of the victims of the attacks, and would attempt to arrest the attackers. In the case of this school situation some students were attacked for displaying a flag on their shirts, and basically took the side of the attackers by blaming the victims of the attacks.

 

It is interesting that you draw a correlation between what the confederate flag represents to African Americans and what the US flag represents to Mexican Americans. At the MLK rally the confederate flag would be inflammatory because it represents the enslavement and oppression of African Americans. Does the US flag represent the same to Mexican Americans? What is the correlation there?

[pheo3309]

In the case of this school situation some students were attacked for displaying a flag on their shirts, and basically took the side of the attackers by blaming the victims of the attacks.

 

But I'm still not seeing where shirts were banned for simply being offended by them. I'm seeing a reaction from a school concerned for the safety of students. Do you have another source?

[ripple]

The 'correlation' is in your head. There is no 'correlation', there is an 'example', intended to illustrate the fact that the three students intended to provoke hostility by their conduct and acted irresponsibly. If someone was to tell me that they don't understand why waving an Albanian national flag during Serbia's national holiday celebrations might lead to a beating, I would say that person is probably ignorant. But it doesn't mean I think either one of those flags must necessarily be worse than the other.

 

I also previously used the 'example' of wearing a shirt with a swastika. That 'correlation' didn't bother you as much as the example of the rebel flag?

Edited February 6, 2014 by ripple

[HeyYou]

I would point out, that we live in the United States. That school was in the United States. So, why do we celebrate another countrys holiday in any event? Does Mexico celebrate on the fourth of july?

[TRoaches]

But I'm still not seeing where shirts were banned for simply being offended by them. I'm seeing a reaction from a school concerned for the safety of students. Do you have another source?

 

If a Mexican American student wore a Mexican flag shirt to school on Independence day and was attacked the other students what would the correct course of action be for the school administration? What about if an African American student was attacked for wearing a shirt depicting MLK? What about a Jewish student who wore a shirt depicting the Star of David? If there was a gang that was attacking Jewish students would you tell the Jewish kids that they should stop provoking that gang? Is that really an appropriate reaction from the school?

 

The 'correlation' is in your head. There is no 'correlation', there is an 'example', intended to illustrate the fact that the three students intended to provoke hostility by their conduct and acted irresponsibly.

You depicted them side-by-side as analogous situations. You drew a direct correlation between a shirt with a US flag worn on Independence day and a shirt with a Confederate flag being worn on MLK day. It is not in my head. It is in your post.

 

 

 

I also previously used the 'example' of wearing a shirt with a swastika. That 'correlation' didn't bother you as much?

In that post you were describing a person wearing a swastika and a person wearing a US flag as analogous situations. What is the connection between wearing a US flag and wearing a swastika? In what ways are they similar?

[ripple]

I would point out, that we live in the United States. That school was in the United States. So, why do we celebrate another countrys holiday in any event? Does Mexico celebrate on the fourth of july?

To answer your question, I can attest that some Americans and people who are from the US or are of US parentage, in countries outside of the US, do in fact celebrate the 4th of July.