pheo3309 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 But I'm still not seeing where shirts were banned for simply being offended by them. I'm seeing a reaction from a school concerned for the safety of students. Do you have another source? If a Mexican American student wore a Mexican flag shirt to school on Independence day and was attacked the other students what would the correct course of action be for the school administration? What about if an African American student was attacked for wearing a shirt depicting MLK? What about a Jewish student who wore a shirt depicting the Star of David? If there was a gang that was attacking Jewish students would you tell the Jewish kids that they should stop provoking that gang? Is that really an appropriate reaction from the school? Let me ask in a different way. Do you have any sources that state that these t-shirts are being banned because they're 'offensive' as you're claiming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripple Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) If a Mexican American student wore a Mexican flag shirt to school on Independence day and was attacked the other students what would the correct course of action be for the school administration? The 4th of July is a holiday in the US. So your 'example' is moot. However, one of the student was interviewed and said she would never wear a Mexican flag shirt on the 4th of July because she felt it would be disrespectful. In your imaginary scenario (you seem to use a lot of those to try and substantiate your claims, like your deliberate confusion between 'correlation' and 'example'....), it would be perfectly 'consistent' for the school administrator to tell the students to turn their Mexican flag shirt over, or go home--if there was a likely threat of hostility and/or disruption to the school, because, as I have been trying to tell you, the administrator didn't act out of any political agenda or conspiracy, but only to cover their ass. Edited February 6, 2014 by ripple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Let me ask in a different way. Do you have any sources that state that these t-shirts are being banned because they're 'offensive' as you're claiming?No. Why do you think they were banned? The 4th of July is a holiday in the US. So your 'example' is moot. Why does that make my example moot? it would be perfectly 'consistent' for the school administrator to tell the students to turn their Mexican flag shirt over, or go home--if there was a likely threat of hostility and/or disruption to the school, because, as I have been trying to tell you, the administrator didn't act out of any political agenda or conspiracy, but only to cover their ass. A gang of violent white supremacists are racially motivated to attack a student who is wearing a Mexican flag on their shirt. The school administrators, concerned about the threat of hostility and disruption to the school, decide to ban such shirts. There is no political agenda or conspiracy. They only want to "cover their ass". Is this acceptable to you? Is the school doing the right thing in this example? Why should the school capitulate to the will of the gang instead of protecting the victim? The whole thing reeks of the same kind of victim-blaming that is done when a rape victim is told that they invited the rape by dressing provocatively. There is no valid excuse for a person to commit violence against another person. It does not matter how abhorrent, detestable, obscene, repugnant, repulsive, ghastly, creepy, disgusting, distasteful, foul, repellent, yucky, hideous, horrid, outrageous, objectionable, obnoxious, dysphemistic, nauseating, provocative, or offensive the clothing of the victim is to the attacker. If a gang of serial rapists were violently attacking other students, and the school administration's response was require all of the girls in the school to wear burkas so as to not provoke the gang to violence against them, would this be acceptable to you? I would prefer that they address the problem by removing the violent gang instead, and allowing the students to dress and express themselves as they please without fear of violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheo3309 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Let me ask in a different way. Do you have any sources that state that these t-shirts are being banned because they're 'offensive' as you're claiming?No. Why do you think they were banned? Due to the reasoning which has been displayed in the thread. The protection of the students who were attacked. Now since you don't have a source, may I ask why you think they're being banned for being offensive when there's no evidence that supports such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Due to the reasoning which has been displayed in the thread. The protection of the students who were attacked. Now since you don't have a source, may I ask why you think they're being banned for being offensive when there's no evidence that supports such?Why were they attacked? Try to explain why without using any of the words listed here: http://thesaurus.com/browse/offend If a female student was raped by a violent gang within the school how should the school react? Should they take action against the rapists, or simply "protect" the female students by restricting their choice of clothing and expression? Edited February 6, 2014 by TRoaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisnpuppy Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Everyone seems to be answering questions with questions...that isn't going to move this discussion forward. The discussion of people having issues with American Flags being displayed.....:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheo3309 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Due to the reasoning which has been displayed in the thread. The protection of the students who were attacked. Now since you don't have a source, may I ask why you think they're being banned for being offensive when there's no evidence that supports such?Why were they attacked? Try to explain why without using any of the words listed here: http://thesaurus.com/browse/offend If a female student was raped by a violent gang within the school how should the school react? Should they take action against the rapists, or simply "protect" the female students by restricting their choice of clothing and expression? Again, you're dodging my question, with another question. And again, that thesaurus link I could use the same argument with people using the word out of context due to it's etymology... It's not relevant any longer. As for the rape portion, that's a red herring. Holds no relevance to the topic as it would go into a legal aspect rather than just the school dealing with something. So I'm going to pass on that question, and the one above for the reason Lisn stated. Until you can unload the burden of proof that flags were offensive to people, or tell why it was deemed that it was banned because it was offensive so I can actually be on the same page as you, I can't continue it as I agree with Lisnpuppy. It's derailing the thread. :tongue: Edited February 6, 2014 by pheo3309 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Again, you're dodging my question, with another question. And again, that thesaurus link I could use the same argument with people using the word out of context due to it's etymology... It's not relevant any longer. As for the rape portion, that's a red herring. Holds no relevance to the topic as it would go into a legal aspect rather than just the school dealing with something. So I'm going to pass on that question, and the one above for the reason Lisn stated. Until you can unload the burden of proof that flags were offensive to people, or tell why it was deemed that it was banned because it was offensive so I can actually be on the same page as you, I can't continue it as I agree with Lisnpuppy. It's derailing the thread. :tongue: I am not dodging the question. The answer to my question will provide the answer to yours. If you can describe why the students were attacked without describing the attackers as being "offended", or some synonym of "offended", then I would cede the point and accept your premise. If you cannot describe the motivations of the attackers without describing them as "offended" or some synonym of "offended" then it indicates that the motivation for the attacks was the offense given by the shirts. Can you describe the possible motivations of the attackers without using the word "offended" or some synonym of "offended"? The correlation between the rape example and the flag shirts is that in both situations the victim is being blamed for the crime, and and discouraged from exercising their free will in exchange for some level of safety. Instead of the school defending its students against the attack and punishing the attacker they are telling the victim that they shouldn't have been dressed that way, and prohibiting them from dressing that way in the future. Your use of the phrase "red herring" is, itself, a red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colourwheel Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) @TRoachesIf any student male or female was "warned" they were going to be raped if they showed up wearing an American flag T-shirt, I doubt they would be so patriotic they would just throw caution in the wind because they must uphold their 1st amendment rights.... :laugh: Don't know anyone I have ever met who welcomes being raped regardless what they wear.... :facepalm: Seems to me the topic has side stepped form flags being ban "specifically" because people are "offended" by them. Which I have yet to see anyone give an actual example of "exclusively banning" just because of someone being offended.... Edited February 6, 2014 by colourwheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRoaches Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 @TRoachesIf any student male or female was "warned" they were going to be raped if they showed up wearing an American flag T-shirt, I doubt they would be so patriotic they would just throw caution in the wind because they must their 1st amendment rights.... :laugh: Don't know anyone I have ever met who welcomes being raped regardless what they wear.... :facepalm: Women are often warned that their manner of dress could make them a target for rape. If a woman ignores those warnings and dresses as provocatively as she pleases, and is raped while wearing those provocative clothes it is unacceptable to place the blame on her, regardless of the warnings she received. She has a right to wear whatever clothes she prefers, just like these kids have the right to wear a US flag to school, and in neither case is it appropriate to blame the victim of the crime instead of the perpetrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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