Why I Think The Empire Is Right

[MidbossVyers]

My point is showing that dragons always Speak for True Needs is that True Needs have nothing to do with morals. No, Ulfric did not need to use the Voice to kill Torygg. Literally, everyone whom you ask knew that a seasoned war veteran would kick the ass of a privileged appointed king. Ulfric did not use the Voice to kill Torygg. Ulfric just Shouted Torygg down to show Torygg's lack of dedication and ambition.

[Rethrain]

Hmm, Dragons do not speak only for true needs but when they really want. Any dragons that are still alive do not follow Paarthurnax's teachings of the Way of the Voice. At the end of the game, when there are more around, it still remains to be seen, but chances are...it won't happen*. They are not beholden to Parthy, or any Greybeard for that matter. I suppose at the end of the day, no one truly is except the gray dudes themselves.

 

As for who enters Sovngarde, I guess it's up to Lorkhan himself. I don't think his standards are exacting.

 

 

*Maybe they'll go back to Akavir for some good vengeance, lol.

[MidbossVyers]

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:High_Hrothgar Dragons Speak only for True Needs. The stone tablets at High Hrothgar refer to a time before the Way of the Voice, but True Needs were still a thing back then.

[Rethrain]

I'm pretty sure they were talking about the Way of the Voice, not really the belief dragons themselves -- Paarthurnax notwithstanding. The tablets talk about Jurgen and his Disputants after all.

 

Edit: You are right, I missed that one particular etching. About true need, number 1.

[Lachdonin]

It's a little more complicated than that... The True Needs thing is basically Name Magic from other fantasies. It's an expression of a core concept. Fus isn't like a telekinetic blast, it's literally the creation of Force from nothing. Need is an expression of intent, so True Need is an Expression of a Concept. Any mortal can learn this through dedication and focus.

 

But that's something entirely separate from the Way of the Voice. The Way of the Voice is a philosophic perspective on the Thu'um that is linked to the Greybeards, and part of their teachings. These are the people who teach the Voice. There are no other known teachers of the Thu'um on Tamriel, and we KNOW Ulfric was training to be one of the Greybeards before abandoning them to fight in the war. If Ulfric was training with the Greybeards, he was trained in the Way of the Voice. The edicts of which demand that the use of the Voice only be used for the glorification of the gods, and never the ambitions of Men.

 

Ulfric, in using the Thu'um against Toryg, violated the Way of the Voice. There is no way to argue or evaluate otherwise.

[MidbossVyers]

Understand that this is coming from a universe where human ambition literally has a patron deity (Lorkhan, whom the Nords revere as Shor), though.

[Lachdonin]

Lorkhan's a little more complicated than that. Ambition is more Talos' game. But yeah.

[MidbossVyers]

Talos may or may not be a mortal incarnation of Shor/Shezarr, though: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shezarrine In fact, whenever a major rebellion or subterfuge occurs in Nirn, it usually ends up being something good (at least, in certain points of view), such as Sithis shattering the stasis of Anu or the creation of the physical world resulting from Lorkhan's machinations. When Lorkhan was forced to incarnate as a mortal, that mortal always became a hero or sovereign of his time.

[Rethrain]

Yeah...that is speculative, mostly. Not to be taken as hard facts. A lot of that is metaphysical. A many parts(and lore books) of religion/mythology are generally quite biased and disparate in TES.