A Gamer's Guide to Small Unit Tactics

[bben46]

@calliton

As someone who has thrown knives in competition, I do not recommend throwing them in combat - unless you just want to get someone's attention. :down:

 

If you throw it, and miss by just a half inch, or even make a good hit in the wrong place, he's going to yell. Then, you have just given him a very good reason to not like you, and have given him your weapon at the same time. :whistling:

 

Most movie knife throwing is totally wrong. If you throw the way they do in the movies it will not have enough force to penetrate. The heart is actually protected very well by the ribcage, a small discrepancy in the angle of the blade means a very upset target who is yelling for help at the top of his lungs. :blink:

 

If you really have to throw something, throw a rock. A big rock. Keep the knife it might come in handy real soon. :thumbsup:

[Oldwolfe]

I can't speak for everyone. I did a -little- knife throwing for fun.

 

Personally, I suck at it.

 

If I had to deal with a bear and all I had was a knife, heck even if I had a sword, I'd climb a tree. Call me a coward if you want, I'll accept that. I'd still climb a tree and wait for spring if I had to.

 

My approach in a knife fight is to use my weight to push the other guy off balance and while he's regaining it stab and then rip upwards. Keep him off balance and keep hitting him. It looks sloppy, not very dramatic, and I've never seen hollywood do it that way. But I've never (obviously) lost.

 

I think the bear has a significant advantage in that sort of fight.

 

I am by no means an expert in all types of fighting. I'll bow to bben46 on the subject of knife throwing. I have been told there are people who are that good at knife throwing, but I've never met one. Like I said, I suck at it. 75% of the time I just bounce the pommel off my target.

 

calliton, you are right about it's usefulness as a tool. A knife is the first thing I add to my kit. However, if you cut a booby trap wire, there's a few things.... Only cut loose wires, never tight ones. A lot of booby traps have a double ratchet trigger. Designed to go off if pulled or cut. So only cut the loose ones, get buddies to hold them on either side of where you cut, so you don't set it off when you cut it.

 

Edit:

 

To the person who asked if I could do a how to guide on booby traps, sorry but no. Well, I could, but I won't. I'd feel too much like I would be making a how-to guide for spousal murder or workplace violence. I don't mind talking about things that are mostly useful for personal defense, but I will not put up a how-to on murder.

[bben46]

I have already removed one bomb making thread. Sorry guys, Not allowed here.

 

If you really want to learn about booby traps I recommend the schools either Me or Oldwolf attended. Mine was at Camp Lejune NC and I'm guessing his was at Ft. Bragg NC. You might learn a little more than you bargained for though. And I guarantee that no matter how good you think your physical condition is, it will be much better afterward.

[Oldwolfe]

I have already removed one bomb making thread. Sorry guys, Not allowed here.

 

If you really want to learn about booby traps I recommend the schools either Me or Oldwolf attended. Mine was at Camp Lejune NC and I'm guessing his was at Ft. Bragg NC. You might learn a little more than you bargained for though. And I guarantee that no matter how good you think your physical condition is, it will be much better afterward.

 

Yes, Fort Bragg.

 

<chuckle>

 

JARHEAD ALERT!

 

Question: How do you kill a marine?

 

Answer: Throw a handful of sand against the wall and tell him to hit the beach!

 

(You know I don't mean it, pal.)

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

I started out in the Artillery. I got all gung ho pretty fast.

 

After awhile I went to our training NCO and put in for Jump School. I didn't get it, but he offered me Air Assault School. I went, had a blast, came back, and thought I was bad.

 

Man, I thought I was bad.

 

I'd tell anyone who would listen how bad I was. In great detail with addendums and footnotes. I'd keep talking about how bad I was until after you lost patience and walked off. (in my defense, I was young)

 

After awhile I was bored again. I put in for jump school again. I didn't get it, but I was offered a shot at ranger school. I jumped at the chance. When I got in, I was on cloud nine.

 

Once again, I went around telling everyone how bad I was. (gawd how everyone must have hated me back then)

 

So I got to ranger school and found out just how bad I was.

 

It kicked my ASS! Oh, how I came to hate those PT instructors in their crisp white T-shirts. (Years later I was one.)

 

I only made it through for one reason. Just one. After shooting my mouth off like the fool I was, I was too ashamed to go back and face my old unit after failing. Let me tell ya, I barely made it through.

 

30 or so years after the fact, I can laugh at myself about it now. I wasn't laughing back then. Yes, I eventually did well in the Rangers, but that took years, and the hard work of several outstanding NCOs who had the patience to teach me the right way.

 

Man, I was a fool.

 

I do have pride in my accomplishments. But my real ones, not the imagined accomplishments of my youth.

 

But to be honest, if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't be a soldier.

 

Too many regrets, too many sleepless nights.

 

If I could do it all over again I'd be a firefighter-paramedic. Spend my time saving lives instead of taking them.

[LHammonds]

Regarding knives...I would view them in combat as a last resort. If it is on equal terms (when does that ever happen?), two master knife fighters are going to do some serious damage and nobody is going to walk away unscathed...it will be a bloodbath. But used as an offensive weapon for stealth kills, yes but I certainly do not think many should "throw" their knife away in an attempt at a silent kill.

 

I knew a retired navy seal that could pick up anything that could stick in a surface, flip it in his hand once or twice and throw it with the sharp end stuck in the objective. Did not matter if it was a "throwing" knife, pocket knife, kitchen knife or a fork. He could quickly size it up and chunk it accurately. I've never met anyone else that had his skills and I certainly do not think it should be considered "the norm"

 

As for silencers and stealth kills, I think the best stealth weapon would be a bow (for distance) or crossbow (for penetration) but it would be one hell of a combat situation that I'd be carrying around that equipment. Gimme my AR-15 and S&W model 459 (not cause they are the best, but because I have trained with them and very comfortable with them). :thumbsup:

 

LHammonds

[Oldwolfe]

I think I wasn't very clear.

 

As LHammonds said, knives, any melee weapons to my mind are not something you want to have to mess with if you can possibly avoid it. I know for a fact I've never had to face a master knife fighter. I also know I am not one myself.

 

I have very little faith in the dependability of the silent-sentry knife kill. Too much has to go right for it to happen silently. Honestly, I don't even want to have to rely on ANYTHING for a silent kill. People survive head shots ALL THE TIME! If someone takes a hit and doesn't go unconscious you KNOW they are going to yell bloody murder. Plus, a smart enemy puts out sentries in PAIRS! It's the only way to do it. Besides making taking them out quietly nearly impossible, they help keep each other awake.

 

Far better to my mind, to just have an overall coordinated attack that bypasses any sentry.

 

While I wouldn't consider going anywhere without a knife, I also don't want to have to rely on it.

 

I don't ever want to have to face someone ever again, in any situation. But if I have to, give me a rifle or a shotgun.

 

Comfort level and familiarity are important. There's several firearms I'm comfortable with. Lately, my mini-14 which is my coyote gun. (back end of nowhere Oklahoma) I hate the stock mini-14 rear peep sight. I replaced mine with a ghost ring sight. I'll take the minor long range accuracy hit in favor of the faster target picture.

 

The largest drawback to the mini-14 is that it doesn't dissipate heat well. That's no real problem for me, because I don't expect ever to be in any prolonged fights. Even the M-16 isn't great at it. I've seen guys peeing on their M-16 to cool it down. (don't want to be crude, but that should give an example of some serious desperation) Even in a worst case scenario, as I am no longer a soldier, if I had THAT much shooting to do, I'd disengage, get some distance, and pick off a few at a time. So heat really still shouldn't be a problem.

 

My Mini-14 is the stainless ranch rifle with that ghost ring sight, Hogue overmoulded stock, an aluminum barrel shroud (black) that's designed to dissipate heat, and a muzzle brake on the end. 4 minor and easy changes.

 

Incredibly good heat dissipation is the big promotional point of the H&K 416. I really hope our military adopts it.

 

And oddly for a soldier, I prefer revolvers as my pistol. If I have to use a handgun, I want that dependability that no semi can ever match. If I HAVE to use a handgun, I absolutely want to know 100% that it will fire, and not jam.

 

Even though the Beretta with it's cutback slide supposedly won't stovepipe (a type of jam), I've had it happen on me. While the semi-auto crowd says the chances of a jam happening are incredibly low with a good semi, and yes that IS true, it still does happen. And it only takes once to kill you.

 

I learned to shoot on a Smith and Wesson model 19. My dad was a cop. My fondest memories of the two of us, one Saturday a month he'd take me to traffic court with him, and afterwards we'd go shooting together at the police range. (it was always abandoned on Saturdays)

 

I have other guns for fun. My cowboy action shooting rig, a big bore sharps, a couple .22 plinkers, several muzzle loaders. But if things got serious, inside the house I'd reach for the shotgun (a short double barreled stagecoach gun from my cowboy action shooting gear). Outside, I'd reach for the mini-14.

 

You know, I would LOVE to see the newer version of the wood stock mini-14 done into the game as a mod. I know this isn't the request area, but I'm rambling.

 

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l141/Oldwolfe/Mini14GB.jpg

 

 

 

Oh, and LHammonds? YES, most definitely that particular combination IS the best.

 

For you.

[Oldwolfe]

Someone asked me about jams, specifically, why worry if an M-16 gets hot. If it jams you just hit the forward assist, right?

 

It gets a lot more complicated than that.

 

One thing you need to realize is that there are numerous types of jams. And the forward assist only helps for ONE of those types.

 

First lets talk about overheating. Overheating can cause a variety of problems. Shoot most weapons enough, you can actually melt them. I am not kidding. The M-60 machinegun comes as part of a kit that includes a spare barrel and an asbestos glove. There is a latch that instantly unlocks the barrel from the M-60 so you can swap it out and alternate as it overheats.

 

Of course, the M-16 has no such feature.

 

Other overheating problems include much higher chances of jams and cookoffs. A cookoff is when there is so much heat in the weapon, that once you stop shooting, the heat sets off the the chambered round, instead of the trigger. Of course in combat, that's not as much of a consideration as in peacetime. In combat you are more concerned with what IS happening, not what MIGHT happen.

 

Jams on the other hand, can really ruin your day.

 

For those who don't know what a forward assist is, it's a contraption on the M-16 that you can hit to ram the bolt forward with more force than the weapon itself can produce.

 

In the case where the bolt doesn't go all the way forward due to excessive dirt, mild warping due to heat, or a slightly misformed bullet, the forward assist can help you get through the momentary problem. But there are other types of jams.

 

A stovepipe is when an expended shell casing doesn't completely exit the ejection port before the bolt comes back forward. So the bolt pins the shell sideways in the ejection port. It looks like you have a small brass tube sticking out of the side of the weapon. Sort of like an old fashioned stovepipe, hence the name.

 

This is also a fairly common semi-automatic pistol type of jam.

 

In an M-16, if you hit the forward assist during a stovepipe jam, all you will do is crush the expended casing some, and possibly make the jam worse.

 

If a jam is from a faulty or misshapen bullet, sometime the forward assist will give you just enough oomph to chamber it and continue firing. And if it's misshapen enough, you will instead REALLY jam it in there hard. Voila! You now have a 7 pound paperweight!

 

Sometimes the bolt will try to strip two bullets from the magazine instead of just one. This is called a double feed. And can result in one (or both) of the bullets becoming misshapen.

 

Sometimes you have a misfire. A bullet simply doesn't fire. In peacetime you keep the weapon pointed downrange and just wait awhile. This is in case the bullet is a hangfire. This means it's slowly cooking off. In wartime, you just rack the bolt or slide and try shooting again.

 

So... depending on the type of jam in an M-16, the forward assist could work, or it could just make things worse. A more experienced shooter will take a quick glance to see if he can tell what the problem is, BEFORE he goes through the immediate action taught by the military. Sometimes you DON'T want to do things exactly like it's taught.

 

With a limited amount of time to train soldiers, most of the training is geared for most situations. Not all situations. So sometimes, the standard training does get people killed.

 

The dirtier your weapon is, the higher the chance of a jam or other failure. The hotter your weapon is, the higher the chance of a jam or other failure. This is because metal expands as it gets hotter. The different thicknesses of varying parts of the weapon means the parts don't all expand evenly so more heat means more warpage.

 

There are several reasons I like revolvers. One, is that they are immune to most of these problems. With no shell being expended and no ejection port, you never get a stovepipe, or any sort of feed jam. If you get a misfire in combat with a revolver, you just pull the trigger again. You don't have to manually rack the slide to chamber another round. If a bullet is so misshapen it won't chamber properly, with a revolver you discover that when you load it.

 

Another reason I like revolvers, is they are capable of medium range accuracy that no standard (there are a few exceptions, but rare) semi- can match. Such as paying 5000 dollars for a Korth.

 

The maximum effective range on most semi-autos is fifty meters, tops. The more compact ones, half that. A six inch barreled .357 in the hands of a really good shooter with time to aim can reach out accurately a couple hundred yards. No, I am not kidding.

 

My standard carry weapon is a 4 inch barreled S&W model 19 (my dad's old gun) in .357. It has Pachmyr Presentation grips, and semi-auto style tritium three dot sights I had a gunsmith install. With it, I can ping a metal silhouette at 100 yards with a moderately fast aimed shot fairly regularly. Try that with a semi-auto.

 

Finally, I like revolvers because they just fit my hand better than most semi-autos do. The only semi-auto pistols I currently own is a Jericho (standard Israeli sidearm) given me by an Israeli officer years ago and a FN Belgian made Hi-Power. Those things feels right in my hand. But I've got big hands.

 

And yes, in a crisis situation I'd be reaching for a semi-auto rifle that has all those vulnerabilities. That's why I want a pistol that I KNOW will give me six good shots when I don't have time to clear a bad rifle jam. In all my years of shooting, I've only once had a good quality revolver fail me. An internal spring broke. Any firearm has a chance of that.

 

----------

 

Once again, a big caveat. The things I mentioned about jams and their causes, yes, that's pretty much fact. But my thoughts on weapon choices, a lot of that is my personal opinion, and I want to clarify the difference. Something I say that's simply an opinion, you will want to consider, but make your own decisions on the matter.

[Oldwolfe]

Are people still enjoying this or am I just running on in a boring manner now? ie. should I keep going or let this thread die peacefully?

[humanbean234]

Me, I'm all for having a space where us vets can talk shop... we've had other threads run on the topic of personal preference in firepower... might as well let this one drift to the backburner for a few days. See you on the "You Know What I Like?" thread...

[bben46]

I too have the stainless mini14 ranch rifle. But I still use the peep sight. It is light, accurate, handles well and easy to maintain. I originally got it because it is similar to the M14 I carried. I am partial to Ruger and also have the 10-22 as a plinking rifle.

 

As for a pistol. currently the only one I have is a Makarov 9x18 mm. Its a small 9mm that fires an odd 9mm variant. There is a kit to convert it to .380 that I plan to have fitted when I finally run out of the stock of 9x18mm I have. It would be a good hide out gun, and that is what the cop that I got it from used it for.

 

My preference is a M1911a colt though. I carried one for a while. Its heavy, short ranged and reliable. It fires a heavy bullet at a low velocity that will get their attention. As long as you are using the round nosed military ammunition it was designed to fire, you will have next to zero jams. As far as range, if they are further away than 25 feet I plan to use a rifle anyway. The old pistol I was issued was actually fairly accurate, but not something I would want to use at any real range.

 

Many people don't know that the Marine Corps initially refused the M16 because of reliability issues, but they were eventually forced to take it when congress refused to fund any more M14s. We were so short of M14s at one time That we were training with M1s left over from WWII & Korea so the remaining M14s could be sent to the combat zone. Another example of better government through lobbying. (It was the Air Force who lobbied for the M16!)