Lets talk about Elves!

[Lachdonin]

Ok, this is something of an old argument, but it's been re-surfacing a lot with talk of ESO and their back-peddle on the Mer. This picture sums up the problem.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Sw6iuYA.png (not re-sizing right, just put in the link instead of having a massive picture)

 

It seems that Zenimax has decided to totally ignore the concept art, as well as Skyrim's models, and make Mer... Well... Elves. I mean, that Dunmer doesn't even have red eyes. Having played in the beta (and without giving much away because of the standing NDA) i can say the Dunmer models, at least, aren't much better. Males are eh, but the females are clearly just mad to be pretty.

 

Some time ago, there was a thread here about how Bethesda ruined elves, and it seems that Zenimax has listened to those people, while ignoring the world in which they were setting their game.

 

Now, i'm not saying that Skyrim is the best depiction of the Meri races. To say they are rough is something of an understatement, but to totally disregard almost 20 years of concept art is disrespectful, particularly when it's so easy to make Mer look good.

 

As an example, and a personal favorite of mine,

 

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/019/c/b/dunmer_study_by_kokomiko-d5oko26.jpg

 

It maintains all the characteristics of a Dunmer, while still conveying beauty and elegance. In fact, the Diviant Artist Kokomiko has something of a knack for drawing Mer.

 

 

Anyway, we've got dozens (if not hundreds) of mods for Meri races out now, and people have had time to settle from the shock of the Oblivion->Skyrim face change. What do people prefer, and what to people feel more enriches the setting of The Elder Scrolls?

 

[kleinstaff]

its is not the dunmer alone you know that both beast races just look not right in ESO

some how i am convinced zenimax doesn't care in order to keep production costs low or because they do not have the skills and expertise to change all those licensed programs they bought

[Lachdonin]

Hmm... Hmm... they really have been playing loose with the design, haven't they? Considering what they did to the poor Altmer.... *sigh*

 

The secondary point does remain, however, Have people gotten over their initial 'Mer are ugly' schtick, or do they still prefer the smooth skinned, pointy eared super-model Tolkien approach?

[WickedRequiem]

I kind of gave up on ESO's consistency when I saw the cinematic trailer.

Excellent trailer, to be sure, but they basically put a pair of rubber ears on an actress and decided to call it a day for the Altmers (and I was kind of peeved with the Breton, but that's another story). If that was a sign of things to come...

 

Still, we can't really single out ESO for this. Other MMOs have stepped back from taking a more daring approach with elves. For example, the elves in FF MMOs were originally supposed to look like the long necked aliens (in charge of the cloning factory) from StarWars 2.

 

I think the most daring approach any MMO has taken with elves was by WoW, choosing to stick with purple. And that's pretty sad on several levels.

 

Oh, as for "mers are ugly" shtick.... I still haven't gotten over how ugly they made them, especially the male dunmer and bosmer. Also, I have more than a few words to say about how out-of-proportion the orcs looked because they had a huge head for a standard body size.

Edited February 14, 2014 by WickedRequiem

[Kraeten]

People prefer the supermodel look pretty much unanimously. Just search for any elven mod here on this website. Personally I was more or less happy with Oblivion's elves. They were eccentric looking, and I rather liked how long faced the altmer were.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Kraeten

[Lachdonin]

People prefer the supermodel look pretty much unanimously.

 

Bear in mind, we're talking here on the Nexus. You saw something like that on the Bethesda forums and you're asking to get lynched.

 

However, i don't think that the in-game portrayal is the best basis for judgement. Texture resolutions are rather low, everything is caked in dirt and everyone, regardless of race looks like they haven't slept in a week.

 

I reference, again Kokomiko's artwork. I've also seen some rather impressive shots of Mer on here, such as

 

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/286/d/a/da50a3662b4910a07bc7f370d37c966f-d6qan6y.jpg

 

But i understand the seeming popularity of the Tolkien-esque elf. My question, then, would be... Why? Its so... bland and comfortable and lacks anything remotely unique and interesting, wheres the appeal?

Edited February 14, 2014 by Lachdonin

[Kraeten]

 

People prefer the supermodel look pretty much unanimously.

 

Bear in mind, we're talking here on the Nexus. You saw something like that on the Bethesda forums and you're asking to get lynched.

 

However, i don't think that the in-game portrayal is the best basis for judgement. Texture resolutions are rather low, everything is caked in dirt and everyone, regardless of race looks like they haven't slept in a week.

 

I reference, again Kokomiko's artwork. I've also seen some rather impressive shots of Mer on here, such as

 

But i understand the seeming popularity of the Tolkien-esque elf. My question, then, would be... Why? Its so... bland and comfortable and lacks anything remotely unique and interesting, wheres the appeal?

 

 

Where's the appeal in trying to beautify every NPC/follower in Skyrim? The answer to that question would be pretty similar to your own I'd imagine.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Kraeten

[Lachdonin]

 

Where's the appeal in trying to beautify every NPC in Skyrim? The answer to that question would be pretty similar to your own I'd imagine.

 

 

I... highly doubt that... I know you're trying to get at the whole 'personal taste' argument, but that's not it. I personally love classical elves, and have, frankly, been enchanted by the imagery for decades, and i STILL think they have no place in TES.

 

The reason I, personally, prefer the Mer aesthetic to the classic Elf is one of character. If conveys the inherently alien aspects of the Mer which is an entrenched part of their lore, the harsh often violent aspects of their culture and lands and their intrinsic place within the world as opposed to being separate from it (which is a common theme in other fantasy settings).

 

It's not about personal taste, it's about reflecting the brutal realities of the world.

[Kraeten]

I'm sure you do think tolkein inspired elves in TES is boring and derivative, but zenimax isn't marketing the game chiefly for lore-minded fans like yourself. Remember, TESO is an MMO....and building an MMO is all about catering to the lowest common denominator....and number wise more people prefer the supermodel look to the rough and eccentric look.

 

Take Peter Jackson's Hobbit films for example. Sure he could have made the 13 dwarves a bunch of burly bearded little tanks like Gimli, but instead to attract the most people they made some of the dwarves like Fili, Kili, and Thorin quite attractive. You're asking why Zenimax decided to ignore the lore, and looking for an artistic reason on why they chose to do so....but the answer has far less to do with art as it does with marketing. Sexy sells rather well.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Kraeten

[Lachdonin]

This isn't just about Zenimax's abomination of Lore (the appearances are only the tip of the iceberg. They totally abandoned every piece of lore for the Altmer) so much as whether or not people think that appearance is better.

 

I suppose i waxed rather whimsical in the beginning, and wasn't very concise. So i'll try again.

 

This is about the general portrayal of Mer in TES games. When Skyrim came out, people here literally screamed that Bethesda ruined their elves (ironically, on the Beth forums, people rejoiced). While the execution was sloppy (as is a running theme with TES) art like Kokomiko's and the above picture shows that you CAN create 'pretty' and interesting characters with the aesthetic.

 

For TES6 (ignoring the fact the Zenimax has already set their sights on generic disregard for the world) should we have Oblivion/ESO elves, or Skyrim. Bearing in mind of course technically superior graphics which would make Oblivion's elves less putty-faced messes, and Skyrim's elves less craggy-skinned sleep deprived zombies.