A Open Letter to Alchemy Modders

[Zaerosz]

Alchemy ingredients in official content have standardized effect values for a reason. Use them. Think about how your ingredients affect the balance of the game ("Hey, is it really a good idea for me to make these fish power up enchanting nine times more than anything else in the game?") or whether they make sense at all ("Fortify Barter, magnitude 6, duration of... 0 seconds. Yep, that looks good."). Think about whether your arbitrary values are really necessary ("All ingredients in the base game have Slow at 50%, and the description of Slow is locked at 50%... Let's make this one 17%!"). Test your stuff ingame. Have some quality standards, for Talos' sake ("Should I maybe check what vanilla ingredients have for Paralysis duration? ...nah, let's make it 60.").

 

And above all, please do not make ingredients with Fortify Alchemy. I swear, this is just... There's a reason there are no Fortify Alchemy potions or Fortify Enchanting enchantments in the game, people! The Fortify Restoration glitch and Fortify Alchemy/Fortify Enchanting loop were bad enough, you don't need to make them even worse!

 

Sincerely, the guy who just spent about an hour patching two other people's mods because they were amazingly imbalanced, and is very frustrated right now.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Zaerosz

[McclaudEagle]

What people want to put in their mods is up to them, whether it unbalances the game or not, it's up to them to decide. You can't actually expect modders to do make something they don't want to make simply because you don't like what they do. There are plenty of mods out there that aren't exactly balanced, I myself was responsible for making one. The point is that most of them are made by people who are new to modding, want to create something ridiculous because it's fun, or they don't quite know how to balance something. Your open letter isn't going to change any of that, it's not going to change the standards, it's not going to make people stop making unbalanced mods, etc.

[Zaerosz]

Yeah, I know, I just seriously needed to vent because I've been building up a lot of frustration and this was just sort of the straw that broke the camel's back, as it were. Sorry if I offended anyone there.

[Blitz54]

Alchemy ingredients in official content have standardized effect values for a reason. Use them. Think about how your ingredients affect the balance of the game ("Hey, is it really a good idea for me to make these fish power up enchanting nine times more than anything else in the game?") or whether they make sense at all ("Fortify Barter, magnitude 6, duration of... 0 seconds. Yep, that looks good."). Think about whether your arbitrary values are really necessary ("All ingredients in the base game have Slow at 50%, and the description of Slow is locked at 50%... Let's make this one 17%!"). Test your stuff ingame. Have some quality standards, for Talos' sake ("Should I maybe check what vanilla ingredients have for Paralysis duration? ...nah, let's make it 60.").

 

And above all, please do not make ingredients with Fortify Alchemy. I swear, this is just... There's a reason there are no Fortify Alchemy potions or Fortify Enchanting enchantments in the game, people! The Fortify Restoration glitch and Fortify Alchemy/Fortify Enchanting loop were bad enough, you don't need to make them even worse!

 

Sincerely, the guy who just spent about an hour patching two other people's mods because they were amazingly imbalanced, and is very frustrated right now.

Yes, I have made errors in my mod. It's expected. This was my first ever project involving modelling, textures, scripting, and modding in general. Some things I did not know the issues of before. Example. I only used health potions, nothing else. So I never knew about the alchemy potion exploit until later.

 

But if you're going to be so disappointed and angry at a modder for putting their time and effort to help make Skyrim better for others, then at least research everything yourself. "Target moves at <50>% speed for <dur> seconds." That is the description of slow. Yes, many of the alchemy ingredients use 50.00 magnitude. But not all vanilla ones do. Large Antlers use 5.00 at 30 seconds. When you make a potion using Large Antlers and any other ingredient using slow, it shows up at 50% for 32 seconds. BUT if you use it with my fish that has 17.00 mag, it stays at 50% but the time goes way up. Same if you make an exact duplicate of large antlers. It becomes 50% for 194 seconds. Way wrong. But this is in vanilla Skyrim. The large antlers should actually be fixed by the USKP team, but the fact is it broke the rules, so I assumed the rules could be bent as well.

 

And although I do not have a 60 second paralysis in my mod, I don't see the issue. If you were paralyzed by any kind of poison in real life. You really think you would get back up in 5 seconds? Especially from a poison that paralyzes you instantly. In fact in MY opinion, all the paralysis potions and effects should be longer. Maybe slow the char down first, and then finally come to a stop.

 

I will thank you for some of the issues though. Barter was an error. But again, first time modding so I messed up. I was worried more about the ingredient value equaling a nice number, that I totally forgot it needed a proper duration and Magnitude.

 

Now that this is all cleared up, I'd be glad to try and fix any major issues you found within my mod. That is, if you are a bit more polite about it. :smile:

Edited May 14, 2014 by Blitz54

[apellis]

What I don't get is why you spent time "fixing" the mod.

If you're so gung-ho about balance, why did you download it to begin with?

Did the description of the mod say anything about balance?

Probably not...

[chanchan05]

Because some people want crazy overpowered characters. Not everyone wants balance. Some wants to be a god in their own world. I've had it arguing with people that way, when a seemingly awesome mod in all other aspects has something that makes it overpowered, and then the fans all gang up on you. Let them be. State your opinion and don't endorse and look for something else.

[lofgren]

Seems like good advice to me. Sixty seconds paralysis is the same as just making the potion kill the target instantly. Ingredients vary slightly in the base game producing the occasional interesting combo and increasing the value of some ingredients for certain effects over others. This is good. Too much variation and you end up with weird worthless ingredients.

 

 

Yes, I have made errors in my mod. It's expected. This was my first ever project involving modelling, textures, scripting, and modding in general. Some things I did not know the issues of before. Example. I only used health potions, nothing else. So I never knew about the alchemy potion exploit until later.

 

That's really not an excuse. It sounds like you dove right in, mucked about with a system you have no interest in and didn't bother to understand, and then never tested it.

 

And yeah, some people want super over powered characters or don't care about balance in the mods they install. That doesn't mean that other people, such as the OP, shouldn't voice their opinions. You have opinions. I have opinions. He has opinions. Seems to me the OP did nothing wrong by expressing his, especially since this is all good advice for any modder who also cares about balance.

[ryanshowseason2]

I don't think OP is so wrong to suggest balance to mods that don't advertise themselves as being imbalanced at least through tags or in descriptions.

 

Then there's the 0 duration ingredients. Serious oversight there.

 

There are a couple good pointers in there for any alchemy modders. Some that I'd hope authors might go back and update their mods with, don't throw anything back at the OP if you're not going to fix your own mistakes or at least admit in your descriptions that the mod is imbalanced and not supported anymore!

 

Even people who work for free are held accountable for damage done in negligence by their work. Updating a description takes a few minutes and lets users who care either way know what they are getting.

 

I'd actually like to know which mods he is talking about so I can avoid balance issues in my game, Because I do like me some alchemy mods especially ones with new ingredients.

[Blitz54]

 

 

Yes, I have made errors in my mod. It's expected. This was my first ever project involving modelling, textures, scripting, and modding in general. Some things I did not know the issues of before. Example. I only used health potions, nothing else. So I never knew about the alchemy potion exploit until later.

 

That's really not an excuse. It sounds like you dove right in, mucked about with a system you have no interest in and didn't bother to understand, and then never tested it.

 

That is one of the rudest and honestly, just plain dumb things to say. You realize modders are not here to be perfect and make a mod that suits everyones needs for free. They do this out of the kindness of their hearts. And in no way did I jump into a system I had no interest in. You think because I made a mistake like ALL mods have at one point (why there is an option for version number), that I'm not interested in Skyrim? My mod was a learning experience. I used it to get better at modding in general so that next time I mod something, I will be better prepared. This is what many, MANY of the people in the modding community have done.

 

It is YOU as a user to decide what mods to install. If a mod mucks up your system, that's on you. Yes the modder made the issue, but you didn't have to use the mod in the first place.

 

EDIT: I don't have a problem with OP pointing out issues in anyone's mod. But the way he had delivered it on both mine and 101 Bugs wasn't in the best way.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Blitz54

[Blitz54]

 

Even people who work for free are held accountable for damage done in negligence by their work. Updating a description takes a few minutes and lets users who care either way know what they are getting.

Actually in this case no. Modders strive to make the mod as amazing and perfect it can be, but it is the users decision to install it in the first place. A modder can't be held responsible for any damage done from "negligence" or lack of knowledge. The only way the modder can be held responsible for any damage is if they purposely uploaded a mod or malware to damage the persons game, save, or computer in general.