A Open Letter to Alchemy Modders

[ryanshowseason2]

 

 

Even people who work for free are held accountable for damage done in negligence by their work. Updating a description takes a few minutes and lets users who care either way know what they are getting.

Actually in this case no. Modders strive to make the mod as amazing and perfect it can be, but it is the users decision to install it in the first place. A modder can't be held responsible for any damage done from "negligence" or lack of knowledge. The only way the modder can be held responsible for any damage is if they purposely uploaded a mod or malware to damage the persons game, save, or computer in general.

 

 

You've misunderstood my point or ignored it entirely. Take your pick and read carefully.

 

The subject wasn't save game corruption or damage to the saves or games in any way. The "damage" is mods waltzing about pretending they are balanced or not citing possible unintended exploits.

 

For instance an armor mod that fails to cite that the chest piece grants 10,000% health regen. This is a failure of negligence on the author's part to properly describe his work. Users install and suddenly notice they aren't dying or taking damage. This is on a new playthrough so they can't figure out what mod is giving them their godlike status.

 

I would hold the mod author accountable for that kind of negligence. It isn't the user's fault for installing it, their only recourse would be to open every mod in the creation kit and understand entirely all of its systems.

 

I don't think it is too much to ask of authors to describe their changes especially ones with outlandish gameplay effects like 1200 seconds of slow time in a potion.

[Blitz54]

 

 

 

Even people who work for free are held accountable for damage done in negligence by their work. Updating a description takes a few minutes and lets users who care either way know what they are getting.

Actually in this case no. Modders strive to make the mod as amazing and perfect it can be, but it is the users decision to install it in the first place. A modder can't be held responsible for any damage done from "negligence" or lack of knowledge. The only way the modder can be held responsible for any damage is if they purposely uploaded a mod or malware to damage the persons game, save, or computer in general.

 

 

You've misunderstood my point or ignored it entirely. Take your pick and read carefully.

 

The subject wasn't save game corruption or damage to the saves or games in any way. The "damage" is mods waltzing about pretending they are balanced or not citing possible unintended exploits.

 

For instance an armor mod that fails to cite that the chest piece grants 10,000% health regen. This is a failure of negligence on the author's part to properly describe his work. Users install and suddenly notice they aren't dying or taking damage. This is on a new playthrough so they can't figure out what mod is giving them their godlike status.

 

I would hold the mod author accountable for that kind of negligence. It isn't the user's fault for installing it, their only recourse would be to open every mod in the creation kit and understand entirely all of its systems.

 

I don't think it is too much to ask of authors to describe their changes especially ones with outlandish gameplay effects like 1200 seconds of slow time in a potion.

 

 

"if they purposely uploaded a mod or malware to damage the persons game, save, or computer in general."

 

As you can see, I did list game. Which included unintentional exploits, errors, and other things related to gameplay. So I did not miss the subject. I simply added more points of things that could also happen.

 

If there is an armor mod that is way OP and is not cited in the description, that doesn't automatically mean the modder doesn't care. It means they missed a piece in the description, or they made a typo in the settings in their .esp, and maybe by some odd chance, they purposely did it to mess with peoples playthroughs.

 

"I would hold the mod author accountable for that kind of negligence. It isn't the user's fault for installing it, their only recourse would be to open every mod in the creation kit and understand entirely all of its systems."

 

Again, no. It is not the authors fault. It's up to the user to download the mod and use it. Just as any other program you download. You always run the risk of encountering bugs no matter what it is. If the mod looks sketchy, don't download, don't endorse, just keep on scrolling.

 

"their only recourse would be to open every mod in the creation kit and understand entirely all of its systems"

 

You should do this regardless. When you go to buy a car, you make sure to research it and understand possible flaws and problems with it. Would you just walk into a dealership and say "I want the red one" and buy it on the spot? If not, why would you do so with your game.

 

Let's use an example here. Midas Magic. Great mod, but it was made before the CK came out so there are issues with it currently. The author is no longer on nexus and does not update the mod anymore. Is he/she in trouble for not updating their mod to the new Skyrim version? Are we mad at the author for providing a great mod for earlier versions, but leaving us outdated with bugs later on? Answer is no. They took their own free time to make a mod for people to use, they didn't and DON'T owe us anything. Same as any author.

 

I think that covers it all. Kind of hard to type with no key on my C and V keys. Gotta press the bubble for it.

[gulogulo]

For me the only spell or item that can be overpowerd is the spell/item NPCs will not or cannot use. If you give them to NPCs, you play fair. Sometimes its difficult though.

 

Example: dwemer automatic projectile launcher - with clip size of 24 ammo launching approximately 3-4 bullets per second. You are fully in control of the item and can spent entire clip or just some of it and reload it any time. Overpowered? In most circumstances you feel like a god! Then you meet heavily armored dwemer terminator equipped with such rifle and explosive bullets. Suddenly your rifle is not so overpowered, especially if you have the wrong ammo. :)

 

Another example: smell. As a beast you can smell others from afar. Which gives you an enormous advantage over NPCs who cant. Overpowered? Not so. Imagine animals/beasts can smell you as well. You enter a cave and all its beast inhabitants gradually become aware of your presence (like over 10 falmers, trolls or chauruses). You try to hide - without success and you die. You cast a super-duper invisibility spell that costs you nothing - and the same result .... since you can still be smelled! Now imagine you do not play as a beast and have no smell. But the beast still have it - you will not even be aware of the problem .... until its too late. :)

[ryanshowseason2]

On "damage" we were never talking about actual damage none whatsoever, game save whatever. Still missing the point... The point is Gameplay exploits. Spelled out now geeze...

 

 

 

"their only recourse would be to open every mod in the creation kit and understand entirely all of its systems"

 

You should do this regardless. When you go to buy a car, you make sure to research it and understand possible flaws and problems with it. Would you just walk into a dealership and say "I want the red one" and buy it on the spot? If not, why would you do so with your game.

 

Let's use an example here. Midas Magic. Great mod, but it was made before the CK came out so there are issues with it currently. The author is no longer on nexus and does not update the mod anymore. Is he/she in trouble for not updating their mod to the new Skyrim version? Are we mad at the author for providing a great mod for earlier versions, but leaving us outdated with bugs later on? Answer is no. They took their own free time to make a mod for people to use, they didn't and DON'T owe us anything. Same as any author.

 

 

Do you truly expect your average user to open the ck and inspect each mod they use to understand the underlying systems? If so you are a complete fool, and unreasonable. The only research that should be required of a user should be reading the description and readme carefully. You cannot expect someone with bashed patches and a 255 load order to open everything in the CK. I can't believe you'd suggest such an outlandish thing.

 

Your Car buying example is horrible. Opening the CK is not equivalent to looking up specs on a car, it is equivalent to opening the hood and taking apart the engine. Not everyone can do that. The specs you're talking about should be on the description page.

 

If you can't rely on a mod author to properly describe their content, it is negligence plain and simple. If you can't be bothered to tell me that your water texture mod also installs creature retextures you've crossed a line, and should be held accountable.

 

What Midas's author owes everyone is to properly state this was created before any development tools so it likely isn't the most stable thing. Also he does the right thing and properly states which spells are likely highly overpowered. IF he's not around its up to the user community armed with proper tags, or the administration of the nexus to change the descriptions.

[gulogulo]

@ ryanshowseason2

 

To be honest, from my experience many readers dont even read the readme :)