Americans

[myrmaad]

I bet if you visit Russia, you would not be impressed as well, though the most obvious things we don't have enough is not intelligence. It's more likely order.

 

 

Sorry but this is where you're not only wrong, but it's what makes me not understand you, or your point at all.

 

I have a dear friend from Moscow, and I have a very good friend who lives in Russia.

 

Based on pictures he's sent me, and my own love of history, I'm certain if I visited Russia I'd be very impressed. But then I'm old, and cranky and value history and people, true graciousness. And I'm very aware of the difference between sincerity and backhanded derision.

[Sarya]

I bet if you visit Russia, you would not be impressed as well, though the most obvious things we don't have enough is not intelligence. It's more likely order.

 

 

Sorry but this is where you're not only wrong, but it's what makes me not understand you, or your point at all.

 

I have a dear friend from Moscow, and I have a very good friend who lives in Russia.

 

Based on pictures he's sent me, and my own love of history, I'm certain if I visited Russia I'd be very impressed. But then I'm old, and cranky and value history and people, true graciousness. And I'm very aware of the difference between sincerity and backhanded derision.

Well, that's the meaning of personal experience. Moscow is a beautiful, but yet a very hard and stressful city, oh, and a very dirty one, I wonder if you can imagine. Pictures don't show that, of course.

 

I'm sorry, I still have a point, but I see that you have difficulties understanding me and it goes offtopic. Venetia_CV is partially right, english is not my native (of course), but I have problems with explanations even in russian. And, as I can't clearly explain why people (at least mine) don't praise american intellectuality without accidentally offending someone, so I'd better stop now.

 

However, from my experience of people's opinions and aside from my friends mentioned above, american television shows are actually not the reason here, and Hollywood films only partially. It mostly comes from the political actions. No, I don't claim everything we hear is truth.

[Venetia_CV]

'K, I feel very uncomfortable in this thread. Debates can be hard fought affairs, but this one appears to be devolving. On that note, I offer my thanks to those participants that both presented well reasoned arguments and accorded the same in turn. I look forward to some future opportunity where-in we all may again meet in a spirit of equality and welcome. All the best and happy gaming.

 

-Kitten

[theLeeHarvey]

Asking a question like this is just asking for trouble man, almost everyone who doesn't live here hates the U.S.A. for more reasons than you can shake a stick at. Jealousy is a female dog :biggrin: .

 

I'd say yes, Americans are stupid, look at who we elected for president this last time. People have become sheep. They want to ride along instead of doing for themselves, and so they voted for the guy who promised them that.

 

Politics aside, we are just a lazy culture. We want everything as quick as possible, as cheap as possible with a minimal expenditure of effort on our parts.

 

You can take comfort in the fact though, that it's not just Americans. The entire world is populated by morons.

[MajKrAzAm]

Either Gore Vidal or Christopher Hitchens once wrote that the United States has an insular and isolationist culture, combined with a global and interventionist posture. For the past century the US has been seen as the ‘reluctant superpower’, that it would rather be left alone than be dragged into ‘entangling alliances’ and forced to intervene in the disputes of the Old World. Historically, Americans have been seen as civil and honest, summarising the best of the Puritan work ethic, however, associated with this there has been a notion of provincialism and philistinism.

 

There is no national tradition of dialectic discourse. I’m not quite sure why but I believe that the civility of Americans has fostered a culture of consensus, in which dissent is seen as suspect and adversarial debate is limited to a narrow set of talking points. Argument in America is generally very poorly conducted. In Congress there is barely any debate, people just give speeches in turn and make no attempt at engaging one another. On television it’s the reverse with pundits slugging it out with one another in shouting matches. Even top tier college debate teams behave as though familiarity with the mechanics of logic is not obligatory and instead resort to smug posturing. Only in the courtroom do you find nuanced debate where evidence is presented and rebutted.

 

Some revision of your work may see a greater number of participants take your meaning. And it can show appreciation and respect to those that have made the effort. Plus, it can also help to prevent the very bias you mention being applied to you. In that spirit of trust and friendship I offer you assorted. Which is to say that though I found your opening style to have been somewhat abrasive, my conviction is that you were well intended.

How about starting with accessible prose?

[Vagrant0]

No doubt. I just tried my best to explain. Perhaps I'm too polite sometimes so it misguides people. But those friends I spoke about are all young, smart and friendly (in fact all are younger, more friendly and less contemptuous than me). Maybe that was just bad luck, and yet that was specifically about people themselves. I bet if you visit Russia, you would not be impressed as well, though the most obvious things we don't have enough is not intelligence. It's more likely order.

You might be right, I might not be impressed too much with the urban centers, but would probably be interested more in the people of Russia. From what little I know of Russian history, it paints a rather varied picture of a colorful and rich people.

 

The real contrast between the two cultures is probably more with how little culture there is in the US, and how much of it has a pure media (scattered and poorly connected) or pioneer (folksy and unintelligible) basis. Likewise, the world sees Americans as little more Cowboys with guns, or as a group of ignorant fools. To those who do not fit this role, seeing real examples around us is as shameful as someone who walks around looking like they had stepped out of the old Russian Orthodox (Before Peter the Great) era (Bad example, but don't think there's any decent comparison which might convey). America only has about 400 years of Post-European history, so there really isn't much to define the people of America from a historical standpoint of culture. Instead, America has that sort of melting pot kinda old cliche, where it is not about where your parents came from, or what history there was, but rather who you choose to present yourself as. It's just unfortunate that the only values which seem to stick are those involving patriotism, rebelling, racism, capitalism, and exploitation, and not more useful ones, like open discourse, innovation, creativity, assimilation of new ideas, and pursuit of human rights. While those more useful ones do occasionally pop up, they tend to only do so when it is politically beneficial, otherwise they tend to get abused and ignored.

 

Never really understood what entitles us to preach to the world about what's "right", meanwhile we ignore those very things we are speaking against within our own borders. Meh, I guess that makes me Un-American by the modern standard.

 

I'd say yes, Americans are stupid, look at who we elected for president this last time. People have become sheep. They want to ride along instead of doing for themselves, and so they voted for the guy who promised them that.

And I suppose McCain/Pailin was a better choice? No matter who gets elected, there will always be some disagreement, due to politics, due to minor policies, due to misinformation, on both sides. While there might have been a sort of sheepish behavior around the election, with people flocking to one candidate simply because they did not know themselves, this is not the whole story. There are people who understand that Obama is not perfect, far from, that much of the media coverage was biased in his favor, and that some of his policies may not be for the best, but still voted for him anyway. This was not being a sheep, this was acknowledging that the purpose of a President is not to solve problems, or come up with great solutions, but to be a figurehead and diplomat between the government and the people. So far, most of the "mistakes" done by The President have been largely due to those he had chosen for staff, and then blown out of proportions and misconstrued by the opposing party. You acknowledge one fault, which is blasted and ingrained in the consciousness of the people, but totally ignore the other, which wasn't given much attention (other than briefly in the "liberal" media (for sheep)), so who's the real sheep? It's either one flock or the other.

[Lisnpuppy]

I am an American..from a part of America upon which even OTHER American's look down. But I don't think I am stupid...I don't believe in general that Americans are more stupid that people anywhere else in the world.

 

I DO believe we are sometimes less educated that other modern nations. I also believe that Americans somewhere down the line (and I could quote history to tell you when, where and why but will not now) began to devalue education. How many stories did we hear as Americans, growing up about the man who made good with a 6th grade education? We don't hear stories about the man who made good that worked his arse off and got a great education, etc.

 

So because Americans in general, hold little value in the importance of education..we do not learn as much, we do not broaden our horizons and attempt to experience cultures outside our own...and in general do not think there is more to the world than the prize at the bottom of our cereal boxes.

 

I hope someday this will change. I am trying it with my child. Trying to expose her to things outside of her little world. But I am not stupid, my daughter isn't stupid and I don't think Americans are stupid either.

[myrmaad]

Looks to me like most Americans are interested and impressed with Russians:

 

Today's Newsweek:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/214585

[overload1977]

most Americans i have meet have been ok, i love the way somethime they dont know what i`m talking about heh, they are better than all the english around here, england is going down hill................ :wallbash:

[dezdimona]

Asking a question like this is just asking for trouble man, almost everyone who doesn't live here hates the U.S.A. for more reasons than you can shake a stick at. Jealousy is a female dog :biggrin: .

 

I'd say yes, Americans are stupid, look at who we elected for president this last time. People have become sheep. They want to ride along instead of doing for themselves, and so they voted for the guy who promised them that.

 

Politics aside, we are just a lazy culture. We want everything as quick as possible, as cheap as possible with a minimal expenditure of effort on our parts.

 

You can take comfort in the fact though, that it's not just Americans. The entire world is populated by morons.

I'm far from stupid,i didn't vote for him and I bust my butt to get what I have. perhaps you see Americans that way, but those I know of family and friends are all hard working people who shun handouts and freebies at any cost. My family has fought for this country for three generations and we know what is happening to it and we do all we can to change what we can. Frankly other countries and its people see only what the mass media wants it to see. The Iraq war portrays violence and accusations yet fails to show all the good our troops have done. Don't judge a people by its government or its agendas.

 

I love my country and its people,does it need change,yes, but not the kind our current president wants, free this and that onlty opens the door to poverty and strife.