What if the prophecy of Alduin's Wall is just what Felldir saw when reading the scroll?

[Nosdrapoel]

"Fate" and "Prophecy" are, when it comes to storytelling, godawful plot mediums. They're cheap excuses for a shallow and quickly scribbled plot.
As a result, I was quite annoyed with Skyrim when the plot turned all prophecy/fate on me - saying that the Blades had some magic prophet that predicted everything and that's why you have to kill alduin.

However, I don't think this is what Bethesda intended. I found a much simpler answer that explains most, if not all, of the plot holes I encountered in Skyrim. It is, as the title suggests -

 

If the Dragonborn can cast herself/himself back with the elder scrolls by reading the scroll at a time wound, perhaps the previous owner of the elder scroll, Felldir, was able to cast himself forward in the same manner.

This explains a number of quirks in Skyrim's storyline:

 

1 - How did the Blades know everything that would happen, except they didn't know who would win the last battle?

A: If Felldir casted himself forward, the last thing he could have seen would have been where the Dragonborn read the elder scroll at the throat of the world - therefore he could have used the elder scroll to read the events up until that point, so that the last thing he saw would be the Dragonborn fighting Alduin, but not the victor. Felldir would have then given the information to the Blades, who decided to construct a wall so people would not forget, perhaps even intending to prepare people for the red mountain and oblivion crisis.

 

2 - Was the world really saved because Alduin landed on the tower in Helgen just in time to save the Dragonborn?

A: The Last Dragonborn, going by the elder scroll, would be the Last Dragonborn Felldir saw with the elder scroll, not necessarily the last dragonborn to exist ever. Perhaps there were many dragonborns prior to the protagonist in Skyrim, and there will be many more afterwards.

So, if Alduin had not attacked Helgen, letting that dragonborn in particular die, perhaps another would have taken his/her place some time later, such that Alduin merely made his demise sooner rather than later. This is additionally supported when the greybeards note that the dragonborn is merely "the only one that has been revealed to us thus far".

 

3 - Why don't the Greybeards, the Blades, etc. try harder to protect the Last Dragonborn, instead sending her/him on missions that had an appreciable chance of killing the dragonborn, presumably ending the world?

A: Because Felldir saw the 'Last' Dragonborn fighting Alduin, in some reality or another, this must happen, meaning that the Dragonborn must survive, at least up until that point. Esbern, an expert on the dragon lore, was likely worried that the reality in which a Dragonborn survived was not his, but another.
In the actual game lore, there is a long period of history where time was split, so this is completely within the boundaries of Skyrim's lore.

 

What do you think? Am I missing something obvious here or is this actually reasonable?

[Rennn]

Whether it's possible depends entirely on how we assume time travel works... And honestly, time travel is just as awful of a plot mechanic as prophecies. :/

[Lachdonin]

Oh man, if you don't like prophecy you are in the WRONG franchise. Everything, and i mean EVERYTHING about TES deals with prophecy. The Staff of Chaos, the Numidium, Cyrius and the Hoondig, The Nerevarine and Sharmat... Prophecy is the TES scthtick. Don't like it, best get out now.

 

You're also underestimating what and how prophecy in TES works. The world is a fabrication, essentially running on the Elder Scrolls themselves. ALL predictions and prophecy come from the Elder Scrolls. It's not some magic wise-man who predicted Alduin, it was the cosmic fragments of the first creation. They can offer insight into future fulcrums and the terms on how to predict when these monumental events will happen, but because these things reside on a choice, they cannot predict beyond them. The prophecy of the Oblivion Crisis did not exist until the Nerevarine defeated Dagoth Ur, at which point it was retroactively written over history to signify the next major event in the ever-shifting timeline of Mundus. Once one challenge is overcome, the next cements from possibility into reality, manifesting its self throughout time.

 

You're also not understanding Alduin's role in everything. He destroys the world. He WILL destroy the world. That's ALL he is capable of doing, it's his entire purpose for existing. At the end of every Kalpa, Alduin swallows Nirn whole, and time resets to begin again. Somehow, the Divines put a get-out-of-tummy free card in this Kalpa, and before he can consume the world Alduin needs to defeat a Dragonborn. The prophecy is irrelevant in terms of WHICH Dragonborn, because there will always be one to challenge him. If the Dragonborn dies by some hand other than Alduin's, he has to sit around and wait for another. He can't do his job without having victory, and this makes whoever Felldir saw moot. He could have seen hundreds of Dragonborn, scattered throughout time, all battling Alduin, because it is a cycle, not a singular event.

 

Plus, Time Travel in TES tends to work rather differently. You can't go forward in time, or view future events with any degree of clarity, because time is not entirely linear. We know of 2 beings who have gone BACK in time and so changed the future that their own place of origin no longer exists; Pelenial and Kinmune. At the same time, reading the same scroll for the same event never yields the same results. The event of prophecy (Sharmat, The Crisis, Alduin's Return) remains constant, but the signs and criteria constantly shift based on the events in the world.

[Nosdrapoel]

Oh man, if you don't like prophecy you are in the WRONG franchise. Everything, and i mean EVERYTHING about TES deals with prophecy. The Staff of Chaos, the Numidium, Cyrius and the Hoondig, The Nerevarine and Sharmat... Prophecy is the TES scthtick. Don't like it, best get out now.

 

You're also underestimating what and how prophecy in TES works. The world is a fabrication, essentially running on the Elder Scrolls themselves. ALL predictions and prophecy come from the Elder Scrolls. It's not some magic wise-man who predicted Alduin, it was the cosmic fragments of the first creation. They can offer insight into future fulcrums and the terms on how to predict when these monumental events will happen, but because these things reside on a choice, they cannot predict beyond them. The prophecy of the Oblivion Crisis did not exist until the Nerevarine defeated Dagoth Ur, at which point it was retroactively written over history to signify the next major event in the ever-shifting timeline of Mundus. Once one challenge is overcome, the next cements from possibility into reality, manifesting its self throughout time.

 

You're also not understanding Alduin's role in everything. He destroys the world. He WILL destroy the world. That's ALL he is capable of doing, it's his entire purpose for existing. At the end of every Kalpa, Alduin swallows Nirn whole, and time resets to begin again. Somehow, the Divines put a get-out-of-tummy free card in this Kalpa, and before he can consume the world Alduin needs to defeat a Dragonborn. The prophecy is irrelevant in terms of WHICH Dragonborn, because there will always be one to challenge him. If the Dragonborn dies by some hand other than Alduin's, he has to sit around and wait for another. He can't do his job without having victory, and this makes whoever Felldir saw moot. He could have seen hundreds of Dragonborn, scattered throughout time, all battling Alduin, because it is a cycle, not a singular event.

 

Plus, Time Travel in TES tends to work rather differently. You can't go forward in time, or view future events with any degree of clarity, because time is not entirely linear. We know of 2 beings who have gone BACK in time and so changed the future that their own place of origin no longer exists; Pelenial and Kinmune. At the same time, reading the same scroll for the same event never yields the same results. The event of prophecy (Sharmat, The Crisis, Alduin's Return) remains constant, but the signs and criteria constantly shift based on the events in the world.

 

Hmm, didn't know all that. It looks like I had the right idea, but didn't understand the whole picture across the games. Thanks for the post.

[Lachdonin]

 

Hmm, didn't know all that. It looks like I had the right idea, but didn't understand the whole picture across the games. Thanks for the post.

 

 

No problem. The 'Prophecy Schtick' in TES is something radically different than, say, Kratos in God of War, or Dark Messiah, or any of dozens of other games. This is mainly because, to their credit, Bethesda has created a universe which plays by some very different rules. Things may look the same from the ground floor, but when you get into the wiring and ductwork, it's a very different kettle of fish. When we're talking about Sheogorath, sometimes literally.

[Scorch621]

Wow, never knew that about the dragonborn...
That there must be a dragonborn to defeat Alduin at every point he arises...
kinda cool really, and it makes more sense considering Akatosh created the dragonborn, but also Alduin.
In a way its a bit like Akatosh is testing mortal kind and seeing if they're worthy of not being swallowed hole by a dragon.

[chanchan05]

Considering how weak Alduin seems for a World Eater, it seems to me that maybe he NEEDS the Dragonborn's soul to gain enough power to become the World Eater. I mean, every other dragon is weaker than Alduin. However the Dragonborn proved to be more powerful in the end, or at least his match. Maybe it's not exactly a get-out-of-tummy free card, but rather Alduin's World Eater Essence split into two, because I don't think you should be able to destroy a reality that you are part of. It's like a zero-sum situation.

[Riprock]

Considering how weak Alduin seems for a World Eater, it seems to me that maybe he NEEDS the Dragonborn's soul to gain enough power to become the World Eater. I mean, every other dragon is weaker than Alduin. However the Dragonborn proved to be more powerful in the end, or at least his match. Maybe it's not exactly a get-out-of-tummy free card, but rather Alduin's World Eater Essence split into two, because I don't think you should be able to destroy a reality that you are part of. It's like a zero-sum situation.

 

 

maybe eating the world doesn't require a lot of "might" in the way we perceive it. maybe eating the world just requires an innate ability, like plants being able to perform photosynthesis. They just do it by virtue of what they are, not because they are "strong"

 

When Alduin has the right set of circumstances he will eat the world. Until then, he can't. It's just what he is

Edited March 23, 2014 by Riprock