The Divide Expanded

[devinpatterson]

Sounds good, Do you have plans to eradicate the tunnlers? (For Settlers to live there I imagine tunnlers would have to go)

Hey Yogogamer, yeah but just the faintest outline of an idea;

 

 

Also I'd like to follow up on the tunnler's implied threat. Primarily I'd like an adventure where the courier penetrates to the tunnlers lair into the colony hatchery and detonates a pre-war nuclear warhead buried there. A way of killing untold numbers of eggs and sealing the tunnlers back in their tunnels as they were before the accidental nuclear detonation the courier caused (once again an act of atonement, although not for the tunnlers :wink:

 

I'll copy the stuff from the independent NV thread later.

Think this weekend I'll take a crack at cloneing the DM worldspace, maybe take a shot at HH too (I'm going to use it as a base for a Legion Sedona).

[Yogogamer]

 

Sounds good, Do you have plans to eradicate the tunnlers? (For Settlers to live there I imagine tunnlers would have to go)

Hey Yogogamer, yeah but just the faintest outline of an idea;

 

 

Also I'd like to follow up on the tunnler's implied threat. Primarily I'd like an adventure where the courier penetrates to the tunnlers lair into the colony hatchery and detonates a pre-war nuclear warhead buried there. A way of killing untold numbers of eggs and sealing the tunnlers back in their tunnels as they were before the accidental nuclear detonation the courier caused (once again an act of atonement, although not for the tunnlers :wink:

 

I'll copy the stuff from the independent NV thread later.

Think this weekend I'll take a crack at cloneing the DM worldspace, maybe take a shot at HH too (I'm going to use it as a base for a Legion Sedona).

 

(Sorry for the late response)

Good, maybe the player would have to make an escape as they detonate the warhead? That would be interesting.

I think it'd also be neat to have a way to eliminate marked men, but that's wishful thinking.

In Re: the worldspaces, glad to hear that, PM me if you come across anything.

[Devilman1975]

I've just played through Lonesome Road recently and I'm more convinced that the idea of putting up a settlement in the Divide is just unfeasible. First of all a clean water source is essential to any settlement and there is simply no clean water source in the Divide. Even if a water caravan is organized it can take some time to cross from the Mojave to the Divide and the path to the missile silo is far too dangerous to lead a brahmin through. The silo may be more or less intact but they are tilted. Can you imagine somebody trying to eat at the diner without their plates sliding off the table? The costs for keeping a settlement like this alive could cost more than any profit made from finding old tech.

 

There is also the fact that the Brotherhood of Steel may still be around in the game. I can't see them being happy with the idea of wastelanders setting up an excavation camp to loot all the pre war tech they can. If the Brotherhood still exist in the game then I would rather offer them excavation rights for the Divide as part of the deal for helping out in the Mojave. They are better suited to surviving the Divide and are interested in disarming any remaining nukes. The NCR have most likely written the Divide as a disaster zone and have no further interest in the area.

 

It is only because of the Tunneler threat I see any reason to return to the Divide in the first place. If the Brotherhood is in the area I'm sure that they can be convinced to aid the player against the Tunnelers. If the Brotherhood were killed off then I would suggest replacing them an excavation group from the Circle of Steel who are hostile towards the player for the destruction of the Mojave chapter.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Devilman1975

[devinpatterson]

I've just played through Lonesome Road recently and I'm more convinced that the idea of putting up a settlement in the Divide is just unfeasible. First of all

While I'm not nearly as pessimistic in a settlements existence (although to be fair, I havn't given it a lot of detailed thought), it seems like a bonafide geck might be an interesting hook.

 

There is also the fact that the Brotherhood of Steel may still be around in the game. I can't see them being happy with the idea of wastelanders setting up an excavation camp to loot all the pre war tech they can. If the Brotherhood still exist in the game then I would rather offer them excavation rights for the Divide as part of the deal for helping out in the Mojave. They are better suited to surviving the Divide and are interested in disarming any remaining nukes. The NCR have most likely written the Divide as a disaster zone and have no further interest in the area.

Hmmmm interesting idea. I wouldn't write0off the NCR though, they may have a better idea than any other faction what can be scavenged from the area (due to their former activities and occupation). I suspect the NCR & BOS truce will be continually tested, especially with the home chapters dwindling existence, elements of the NCR will be looing for any excuse to renew the war with teh Mojave chapter.

 

It is only because of the Tunneler threat I see any reason to return to the Divide in the first place. If the Brotherhood is in the area I'm sure that they can be convinced to aid the player against the Tunnelers.

Yeah I could see the BOS motivated to aid the player due to protection of military tech. I could see the NCR persuaded to aid the courier due to the threat it poses to teh Mojave. There are certainly angles we could use. And I wouldn't mind if it's a few companions, but I wouldn't want to script a large force. Nor would I want to play alongside one (sort of dilutes the do or die, army of one, excitement when you'v got a platoon behind you).

 

If the Brotherhood were killed off then I would suggest replacing them an excavation group from the Circle of Steel who are hostile towards the player for the destruction of the Mojave chapter.

It's always a tough call in regard to why various factions don't do more prospecting (the divide, OWB etc). But in regard to teh circle of steel, they'r more internal affairs to do "in house" cleanup. Another bos chapter/faction, a bos outcast chapter/faction etc could certainly fill the role though, if the Mojave chapter is gone.

[MarchUntoTorment]

Just as a quick late-night idea -

 

What about pulling in a character from each faction you have a good relationship with to go do advance recon (where you'd end up destroying) the Tunnelers? Y'know, a Paladin if you're friends with the Brotherhood, a Veteran Ranger if you're friends with the NCR, etc... there's actually the opportunity for some pretty fun antagonistic dialogue in there between them about being pissed off because they have to work together.

[blaze1514]

I would love to see a small community in the divide.

[SgtWhatsHisName]

i for one cannot wait to see this mod. the divide has always been my 2nd favorite location in FNV. first would have to be the big empty. crazy robot brains and mentats.

[devinpatterson]

Just as a quick late-night idea -

 

What about pulling in a character from each faction you have a good relationship with to go do advance recon (where you'd end up destroying) the Tunnelers? Y'know, a Paladin if you're friends with the Brotherhood, a Veteran Ranger if you're friends with the NCR, etc... there's actually the opportunity for some pretty fun antagonistic dialogue in there between them about being pissed off because they have to work together.

Yeah the dialog could certainly be interesting, especially between the bos and NCR. You could have old grudges going all the way back to specific instances of the BOS/NCR war (like helios 1), to the scavenged power armor etc. Possibly a securitron for the house faction, legion would have plenty to choose from.

 

On the other hand I'm rather partial to just the courier, and the divide has this sort of atmosphere that (to me) seems to encourage a single adventurer (ie the lonesome road). But none the less, your idea of mixed volunteers and Devilman's idea of the BOS handling disposal/guard of the divide also have some interesting angles that should be explored.

 

A slight twist building on teh suggestions you two made could be regarding factions, could be a secondary adventure at end of the mod. It could hinge on a negative or relatively low rep with some of the factions. Either faction BOS or NCR (and really just about any factions other House's securitrons) might see the Divide as too dangerous to venture in.......and simply too difficult to track the courier once s/he was in it.

 

They may also see the courier as *the* problem. Ie if s/he wasn't mucking around the Divide, it would stay dead (obviously not the case, but considering how long as it's slumbered, I could see that attitude/opinion emerging). They may just decide to wait to ambush the courier. It would alleviate the need to track him/her and (in their mind, the courier just being one wo/man) reduce casualties substantially. Hopeville missile silo seems like a relatively safe (compared to the rest of the divide) place to bivouac and prepare an ambush.

 

All of that is going to be dependent of faction reps, whether or not ncr or legion was nuked in lonesome road etc.

 

An alternate version could also place some faction at teh hopeville silo initially as a watch/guard that has to be overcome on the way in, then a reinforced presence that has to be overcome on the way out.

 

A mixed force (something like MarchUntoTorment's suggestion on a larger scale), might be even holding a uneasy alliance to guard the entrance to the divide (if post NCR/BOS alliance), making for a greater challenge (or opportunity to start hostilities between the two and slip in unnoticed).

 

Anyway several angles to explore.

 

I would love to see a small community in the divide.

I would too, it seems like it would be a fitting addition to the tale. You probably already know this Blaze, but for some other players which didn't pay attention to the history of the divide (I know Ulysses can ramble), the courier was unwittingly responsible for causing the 2nd nuclear bombardment and apocalyptic level destruction of the area. It (the community) was built after both the 1st great war nukes fell and the insane weather patterns began (created by the OWB think tanks). The courier saw promise in the community, and Ulysses even more so (the possibility for it to rival or surpass the NCR, at least philosophically). The NCR began to annex the community and during their exploration of conquered enclave locations ran across a hardware item (the wiki is confusing on exactly what) with markings similar to many found in the Divide. The courier delivered the package to the Divide (at the NCR's behest), whereupon it began communicating with the various silos and initiated launch commands. Ie. BOOM!

 

The idea of completing the circle and a tale of redemption is very appealing to me.

 

i for one cannot wait to see this mod. the divide has always been my 2nd favorite location in FNV.

Some great potential quests, and it's a shame to just let the worldspace languish.

 

first would have to be the big empty. crazy robot brains and mentats.

Definitely. I'm working on a expansion to it, but with a lot of irons in the fire it's going slow. However any ideas you can contribute would be appreciated.

 

So lets see if we can address some of Devilman's concerns re: the Divide.

 

I've just played through Lonesome Road recently and I'm more convinced that the idea of putting up a settlement in the Divide is just unfeasible. First of all a clean water source is essential to any settlement and there is simply no clean water source in the Divide.

I believe that one may be fairly easy to write in, and in a lore friendly way. The military would make provisions for their personal in the event of a nuclear bombardment, part of these provisions should surly include food and water. Whether it's stored or some other more exotic source (tech like the sierra madre\commisary, or something more mundane like an underground well or tapping a underground reservoir), I think we can write that in fairly easily.

 

Even if a water caravan is organized it can take some time to cross from the Mojave to the Divide and the path to the missile silo is far too dangerous to lead a brahmin through.

Actually goodsprings and the canyon wreckage look like they are pretty close to each other (N5, E3, I drew a green line), most of it even along the road;

 

PIC: http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/devinlpatterson/FONV%20Mods-works%20in%20progress/Fallout_New_Vegas_Map_v003small_zps3b1c2f76.jpg

 

 

 

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/devinlpatterson/FONV%20Mods-works%20in%20progress/Fallout_New_Vegas_Map_v003_zps5d117e01.jpg

 

 

 

 

The silo may be more or less intact but they are tilted. Can you imagine somebody trying to eat at the diner without their plates sliding off the table? The costs for keeping a settlement like this alive could cost more than any profit made from finding old tech.

Personally I don't think the tilt is a big deal, especially with the tech that might be prospected. I think there are more poignant issues.

 

There is also the fact that the Brotherhood of Steel may still be around in the game. I can't see them being happy with the idea of wastelanders setting up an excavation camp to loot all the pre war tech they can.

True, but that may hinge greatly on their relationship with the courier.

 

If the Brotherhood still exist in the game then I would rather offer them excavation rights for the Divide as part of the deal for helping out in the Mojave. They are better suited to surviving the Divide and are interested in disarming any remaining nukes. The NCR have most likely written the Divide as a disaster zone and have no further interest in the area.

Might be an interesting settlement if it was essentially a BOS camp. Could make a intriguing setting. I tend to think in re: to the NCR though, that they do have a pretty good idea of what is in there due to teh time they spent annexing the community and exploring the area. In a way their exploration/curiosity is what lead to the 2nd bombardment of the Divide. If they hadn't discovered various symbols and markings of the divids silo's they never would have linked them to the device discovered in (I believe) Navarro that triggered the launches. So, as I mentioned in my previous post, they may not be willing to write off teh divide.

[Devilman1975]

First of all I want to touch upon the other factions interest in the Divide.

 

Mr House - As much as he 's only concerned about Vegas and Hoover Dam I think that House would regard the tunneler as a serious threat to his business empire. He would send the Courier there for further investigation but I also believe that the Securitrons would not be able to aid the player due to the terrain of the Divide.

 

Legion - Caesar himself would also be wise to consider the tunnelers as a future threat to deal with. Lanius on the other hand may relish the opportunity to put his blade to those creatures. I doubt that he'll care much about casualties inflicted by the tunnelers in the Mojave. He'll see it as a means of separating the weak from the strong.

 

NCR - While I agree that the NCR would be concerned about the tunneler threat I just can't see any other reason for them to be there. I wouldn't put too much stock in the NCR's previous experience in the area due to their fumble in the dark approach to things. The Divide would still be a sore spot to the NCR as they lost a whole platoon there. Not against the Legion but due to an accident that they caused. I have my doubts that the NCR Government could have kept mention of this out of the press. I sometimes wonder that if the Brotherhood took over Navarro instead of the NCR, would they have been tech savvy enough to identify the "mysterious package" before sending it to the Divide?

 

The idea of completing the circle and a tale of redemption is very appealing to me.

 

Wasn't that the point of Lonesome Road in the first place? The redemption part only applies if you disabled both nukes in the original dlc. Retelling the same story again doesn't sound too interesting for me.

 

 

I believe that one may be fairly easy to write in, and in a lore friendly way. The military would make provisions for their personal in the event of a nuclear bombardment, part of these provisions should surly include food and water. Whether it's stored or some other more exotic source (tech like the sierra madre\commisary, or something more mundane like an underground well or tapping a underground reservoir), I think we can write that in fairly easily.

 

I never saw anything in the Divide that would indicate anything like a military shelter existing there. If there was indeed a vault to shelter military personnel then I would predict that it was overrun by the tunnelers as they were the original pre war inhabitants of Hopeville. The underground explosions from the accident that a player with high explosives skills mentioned previously would have caused further damage to the vault.

 

Regarding the commisary machines I was never satisfied with their explanation. Obviously the developers wanted to create a merchant without adding in human npcs to maintain the desolate and isolated mood to the dlc. If we believe that the commisaries are linked to a central source then that would indicate there would be chutes that stretch for miles underground. If we accept that these underground chutes suffered no damage then how do you explain the commisary located on the military truck on a destroyed highway? That's pretty much cut off from the main supply line but we're supposed to believe otherwise. In regards to the other tech I would only consider placing Sierra Madre vending machines in the Divide only to recreate the accident that turned Big MT into a crater. A few of those strategically placed should reduce that hell hole to atoms.

 

 

Actually goodsprings and the canyon wreckage look like they are pretty close to each other (N5, E3, I drew a green line), most of it even along the road;

PIC: http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u404/devinlpatterson/FONV%20Mods-works%20in%20progress/Fallout_New_Vegas_Map_v003small_zps3b1c2f76.jpg

 

First of all I don't believe that the water source for Goodsprings is that abundant for another settlement to use. The people of Goodsprings may not mind letting a traveler fill up a couple of water bottles at the well but I don't think they've got that much water to share.

 

Regardless of where the settlement would get water from in the Mojave I believe that the journey to the Divide is similar to that two week travel to Zion that is mentioned in the start of Honest Hearts. The fact that Ulysess mentions that it will take years for the tunnelers to reach the Mojave and that Big MT is located close to the Divide would suggest that the Divide is not directly located right beside the Mojave. I also believe that it's more likely that Big MT would be infested by the tunnelers before they reached the Mojave.

 

 

The silo may be more or less intact but they are tilted. Can you imagine somebody trying to eat at the diner without their plates sliding off the table? The costs for keeping a settlement like this alive could cost more than any profit made from finding old tech.

Personally I don't think the tilt is a big deal, especially with the tech that might be prospected. I think there are more poignant issues.

 

That tilted silo may offer shelter for players after killing off the respawning Marked Men and robots but I still don't see it as the basis for a small settlement. The only people I would expect to see in there would be Brotherhood scribes and/or NCR engineers attempting to disarm the remaining nuke. The only other tech in that area I would consider useful would be whatever it was that scanned and cloned Ed-E. I would probably want to call first dibs on that kind of tech.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Devilman1975

[blaze1514]

 

Regarding the commisary machines I was never satisfied with their explanation. Obviously the developers wanted to create a merchant without adding in human npcs to maintain the desolate and isolated mood to the dlc. If we believe that the commisaries are linked to a central source then that would indicate there would be chutes that stretch for miles underground. If we accept that these underground chutes suffered no damage then how do you explain the commisary located on the military truck on a destroyed highway? That's pretty much cut off from the main supply line but we're supposed to believe otherwise. In regards to the other tech I would only consider placing Sierra Madre vending machines in the Divide only to recreate the accident that turned Big MT into a crater. A few of those strategically placed should reduce that hell hole to atoms.

 

 

The silo may be more or less intact but they are tilted. Can you imagine somebody trying to eat at the diner without their plates sliding off the table? The costs for keeping a settlement like this alive could cost more than any profit made from finding old tech.

Personally I don't think the tilt is a big deal, especially with the tech that might be prospected. I think there are more poignant issues.

 

That tilted silo may offer shelter for players after killing off the respawning Marked Men and robots but I still don't see it as the basis for a small settlement. The only people I would expect to see in there would be Brotherhood scribes and/or NCR engineers attempting to disarm the remaining nuke. The only other tech in that area I would consider useful would be whatever it was that scanned and cloned Ed-E. I would probably want to call first dibs on that kind of tech.

Wow Mr. Pessimistic......

 

The explanation of the cominsery machines is not the original one (so I have read). It was supposed to work on a similar scan system that the LR ED-E used, then it was supposed to teleport the item from the storage to the commissary (similar to the way you get teleported to Big MT). For some reason they thought that explanation too far fetched and for some reason went with the underground linked tunel system (even though the ground is literally split making the latter more impossible than the former).

 

How is a group of Brotherhood knights and scribes staying long term to uncover and defuse tech not a small settlement? That is literally a small military settlement. A group of NCR Engineers with protection would also be a small military settlement

 

I would say that Ulysses Temple is a more level location. We could make a path straight to it, explained by the settling party using a warhead to clear a path. The Ashton Silo Control Station is another option, but there is no real way to make the journey safe.