The Divide Expanded

[Devilman1975]

 

The explanation of the cominsery machines is not the original one (so I have read). It was supposed to work on a similar scan system that the LR ED-E used, then it was supposed to teleport the item from the storage to the commissary (similar to the way you get teleported to Big MT). For some reason they thought that explanation too far fetched and for some reason went with the underground linked tunel system (even though the ground is literally split making the latter more impossible than the former).

 

Even though I love the Fallout franchise it doesn't mean that the developers are incapable of creating plot holes that you could steer a Behemoth through. The idea of teleporting the items does sound very far fetched indeed. Here's the notes regarding the commisaries that are found on the terminal that unlocks Ed-E's pod in the Hopeville Silo.

 

Commissary Notice

Attention all base personnel:

 

The automated Commissary system has been locked down until further notice. It turns out that the "counterfeit-proof" pay chits we've been issuing to you are exactly the same size and shape of ordinary bottlecaps. Until we can correct the problem, you'll have to make your purchase the old-fashioned way.

 

- SSGT Lansky

 

And

 

Commissary Reminder

 

Attention all base personnel:

 

This is just a reminder that all base commissary terminals draw the same central depository. Please do not waste your time or the technicians' by running from commissary to commissary. You won't get any more whiskey than you did from the first one.

 

- SSGT Lansky

 

 

How is a group of Brotherhood knights and scribes staying long term to uncover and defuse tech not a small settlement? That is literally a small military settlement. A group of NCR Engineers with protection would also be a small military settlement

 

A settlement is someplace like Goodsprings. A place where you would expect to put down roots, raise a family etc. What's being proposed is an excavation camp which is something entirely different. If we were to start calling this a settlement then we can start calling the Outcast Outpost in Operation Anchorage a settlement too. We call also Sloan a settlement instead of a quarry worker's camp.

 

I would say that Ulysses Temple is a more level location. We could make a path straight to it, explained by the settling party using a warhead to clear a path. The Ashton Silo Control Station is another option, but there is no real way to make the journey safe.

 

It may have been some time since I last played Lonesome Road but I seem to remember Ulysses Temple exploding around me at the end of the game. I've never tried to re enter that location but I assumed it was closed off to the player afterwards.

 

I always thought that the "area exploding around me" idea might have made sense in Lonesome Road but there was no need for it in Dead Money when I killed Elijah and saw the Sierra Madre vault exploding around me. As if I did'nt have enough incentive to run out of there with my explosive collar beeping faster. I'm only surprised that Zion Canyon didn't crumble around me when I killed Salts Upon Wounds at the end of Honest Hearts.

[blaze1514]

 

 

The explanation of the cominsery machines is not the original one (so I have read). It was supposed to work on a similar scan system that the LR ED-E used, then it was supposed to teleport the item from the storage to the commissary (similar to the way you get teleported to Big MT). For some reason they thought that explanation too far fetched and for some reason went with the underground linked tunel system (even though the ground is literally split making the latter more impossible than the former).

 

Even though I love the Fallout franchise it doesn't mean that the developers are incapable of creating plot holes that you could steer a Behemoth through. The idea of teleporting the items does sound very far fetched indeed. Here's the notes regarding the commisaries that are found on the terminal that unlocks Ed-E's pod in the Hopeville Silo.

 

Commissary Notice

Attention all base personnel:

 

The automated Commissary system has been locked down until further notice. It turns out that the "counterfeit-proof" pay chits we've been issuing to you are exactly the same size and shape of ordinary bottlecaps. Until we can correct the problem, you'll have to make your purchase the old-fashioned way.

 

- SSGT Lansky

 

And

 

Commissary Reminder

 

Attention all base personnel:

 

This is just a reminder that all base commissary terminals draw the same central depository. Please do not waste your time or the technicians' by running from commissary to commissary. You won't get any more whiskey than you did from the first one.

 

- SSGT Lansky

 

 

How is a group of Brotherhood knights and scribes staying long term to uncover and defuse tech not a small settlement? That is literally a small military settlement. A group of NCR Engineers with protection would also be a small military settlement

 

A settlement is someplace like Goodsprings. A place where you would expect to put down roots, raise a family etc. What's being proposed is an excavation camp which is something entirely different. If we were to start calling this a settlement then we can start calling the Outcast Outpost in Operation Anchorage a settlement too. We call also Sloan a settlement instead of a quarry worker's camp.

 

I would say that Ulysses Temple is a more level location. We could make a path straight to it, explained by the settling party using a warhead to clear a path. The Ashton Silo Control Station is another option, but there is no real way to make the journey safe.

 

It may have been some time since I last played Lonesome Road but I seem to remember Ulysses Temple exploding around me at the end of the game. I've never tried to re enter that location but I assumed it was closed off to the player afterwards.

 

I always thought that the "area exploding around me" idea might have made sense in Lonesome Road but there was no need for it in Dead Money when I killed Elijah and saw the Sierra Madre vault exploding around me. As if I did'nt have enough incentive to run out of there with my explosive collar beeping faster. I'm only surprised that Zion Canyon didn't crumble around me when I killed Salts Upon Wounds at the end of Honest Hearts.

 

OK, so it seems they just left the particular transport method, they didn't change it. The fact is that if you (and all of your gear) are able to be teleported to Big MT then it would go without saying that a military installation near the Big MT may have a watered down version of that tech. (commissaries)

 

Actually I do consider Solan a small mining settlement. It was the first thing I thought of when talking about this topic.

 

I thought there was an ending that it didn't explode? If not... oh well, if there is one with it in-tact, use that script (or lack there of) for the mod.

Edited July 9, 2014 by blaze1514

[devinpatterson]

First of all I want to touch upon the other factions interest in the Divide.

I'll get back to you on the points your raise soon, but I had an idea I wanted to throw out there.

 

I'd like to make some BOS marked men. Skinless with parts of power armor (supplemented by scrap). I think they could make some interesting foes, with some of the BOS's high tech weapons.

 

2274 was the beginnings of the Mojave BOS/NCR war, until then the Mojave chapter had stayed out of the NCR/BOS war raging in the core region. In 2276 the NCR attacked Helios one. We also know that the divide was subjected to a second nuclear bombardment within recent times (unless the courier is over 40, this probably happened within two decades of the present).

 

So long story short I think the BOS cold have been operating in the Divide, before the 2nd bombardment, with little or no inference from the NCR (although I'm sure they could come into conflict with any legion forces), as hostilities hadn't begun in earnest at that time. They could have been caught up in the same nuclear conflagration as the hapless NCR and Legion troops that resulted in marked men.

[Devilman1975]

I'm sorry, Devin. I know that I've disagreed with some of the ideas popping up on this thread recently but I don't think BOS Marked Men is a good idea.

 

First of all from Ulysses holotape conversation with Christina Royce found in Big MT we know that the Brotherhood is aware of the Divide but they believe that there is nothing of value in the area and that the place is just another wasteland hellhole. Secondly the Mojave BOS would have come into conflict with the NCR as they moved into the Divide some time before the Legion did. Lastly power armor would have prevented the wearer's skin from being flayed by the dust storms. They might have become a normal ghoul instead if they were lucky.

 

 

2274 was the beginnings of the Mojave BOS/NCR war, until then the Mojave chapter had stayed out of the NCR/BOS war raging in the core region. In 2276 the NCR attacked Helios one. We also know that the divide was subjected to a second nuclear bombardment within recent times (unless the courier is over 40, this probably happened within two decades of the present).

 

I don't know where you came up with this twenty year figure so I'll add in a section from Ulysses wiki page detailing his time in the Divide to clear up this misunderstanding.

 

"Ulysses continued to walk the wastes, exploring the wastelands for Caesar. Between 2274 and 2277, Ulysses discovered a community called "The Divide" which was, in his own words, "a nation taking its first breath," surrounded and shaped by the symbols of the Old World, with the potential to become a real homeland for Ulysses, beyond the lies and everything else, and a second chance, a new way of thinking outside of the rigid discipline of the Legion. To Ulysses' dismay, the prosperous community was discovered and annexed by NCR, which in turn drew the attention of Caesar, who sent in a small army to take it over. Ulysses had tentative plans to save the community, but before he could act, the Courier, hired by the NCR, unintentionally brought a package from Navarro^[4] containing a mysterious device before departing."

 

It should also be noted from the conversations from Ulysses in Lonesome Road we know that the Courier was the first person who discovered the Divide in recent years and used it as a route between NCR territory and the Mojave before settlers moved in.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Devilman1975

[devinpatterson]

I'm sorry, Devin. I know that I've disagreed with some of the ideas popping up on this thread recently but I don't think BOS Marked Men is a good idea.

Hey no worries, I'm asking for your opinion and I appreciate the feedback. We may not agree but I find your opinions are often well thought out and I value the research you do to support them.

 

This is going to be very piecemeal and possibly terse because of time and the environment I'm typing it in.

 

First of all from Ulysses holotape conversation with Christina Royce found in Big MT we know that the Brotherhood is aware of the Divide but they believe that there is nothing of value in the area and that the place is just another wasteland hellhole.

I'm not too worried about Christina specific lack of knowledgeable concerning the divide, and in addition this would have occurred (bos in the divide) before the 2nd bombing. She may be under the impression that nothing was left after the 2nd volley, or simply may not be as well informed as say the circle of steels head scribe or elder.

 

Secondly the Mojave BOS would have come into conflict with the NCR as they moved into the Divide some time before the Legion did.

The timeline is OK for interaction before hostilites start (sometime between 2274 & 2276), so I'm ok with this one. In addition they may have had butted heads, could even be part (among many others) of the reason they sat their sights on the BOS.

 

Lastly power armor would have prevented the wearer's skin from being flayed by the dust storms. They might have become a normal ghoul instead if they were lucky.

I don't think they protect against the nukes, we can see that in Colonel Royez's unfortunate transformation to a marked man, in the long 15. In addition, over time (from the 2nd detonation to the present day) additional parts of teh power armor will be worn down, damaged etc increasing exposure to the elements.

 

 

2274 was the beginnings of the Mojave BOS/NCR war, until then the Mojave chapter had stayed out of the NCR/BOS war raging in the core region. In 2276 the NCR attacked Helios one. We also know that the divide was subjected to a second nuclear bombardment within recent times (unless the courier is over 40, this probably happened within two decades of the present).

I don't know where you came up with this twenty year figure so I'll add in a section from Ulysses wiki page detailing his time in the Divide to clear up this misunderstanding.

I'm not sure how you read it, but I was simply stating it couldn't have been *more* than 20 years ago unless the courier was over 40 or had traversed the divide before s/he was 20. But thanks for the detailed timeline.

 

"Ulysses continued to walk the wastes, exploring the wastelands for Caesar.....

Thanks for the additional info, I'm trying to gather all I can. I know your not a fan of the settlement idea, and I totally understand if you don't want to work/help with that aspect of the mod. But if you could send me any additional info you come across on the nature of the original settlement that would be invaluable. I'm finding it a little difficult to piece together the defining characteristics that made it so promising to Ulysses.

 

So I'm fairly satisfied with the BOS marked men being a possibility and I'll probably start the models soon (might just be one squad). But if you think of any additional points of contention feel free to post them.

[devinpatterson]

First of all I want to touch upon the other factions interest in the Divide.

 

Mr House - As much as he 's only concerned about Vegas and Hoover Dam I think that House would regard the tunneler as a serious threat to his business empire. He would send the Courier there for further investigation but I also believe that the Securitrons would not be able to aid the player due to the terrain of the Divide.

Sounds good, I like that setup. Although I suspect he wouldn't care until the tunnlers were well past containment (threatening to impact commerce on the roads) , unless the courier could truly impress upon him the gravity of the situation.

 

Legion - Caesar himself would also be wise to consider the tunnelers as a future threat to deal with. Lanius on the other hand may relish the opportunity to put his blade to those creatures. I doubt that he'll care much about casualties inflicted by the tunnelers in the Mojave. He'll see it as a means of separating the weak from the strong.

I wonder if one/some might be used in the arena.

 

NCR - While I agree that the NCR would be concerned about the tunneler threat I just can't see any other reason for them to be there. I wouldn't put too much stock in the NCR's previous experience in the area due to their fumble in the dark approach to things. The Divide would still be a sore spot to the NCR as they lost a whole platoon there. Not against the Legion but due to an accident that they caused. I have my doubts that the NCR Government could have kept mention of this out of the press.

Possibly, on the other hand they may be keenly concerned about someone stirring the pot, considering they were the victims of the divide's hand. Simply so that the possibility of something like the long 15 doesn't become a reality. But I'm not sure we actually need the legion or NCR in the divide for our story per se. So I'm not going to worry too much about them unless we have to bring those actors on stage for a quest.

 

I sometimes wonder that if the Brotherhood took over Navarro instead of the NCR, would they have been tech savvy enough to identify the "mysterious package" before sending it to the Divide?

 

Yeah it seems reasonable since they are especially concerned with military tech. If not them then no one (except obviously the enclave).

 

 

The idea of completing the circle and a tale of redemption is very appealing to me.

Wasn't that the point of Lonesome Road in the first place? The redemption part only applies if you disabled both nukes in the original dlc. Retelling the same story again doesn't sound too interesting for me.

 

 

The community, what really ignited a ideal and hope in Ulysses was lost and hasn't been restored. There is the possibility for redemption for Ulysses (depending on speech checks), sacrfice (ed-e) and limited atonement for the courier (although his/her only crime was trusting in the NCR's competency). But the courier hasn't restored what may have been unique in the wasteland (the settlement).

 

I never saw anything in the Divide that would indicate anything like a military shelter existing there.

 

Oh I don't mean a specific installation that was only a shelter, I mean all of the large military installations in teh divide would have provisions to preserve the military staff (at least food and water). They'r hardened targets with military ballistic missile capability, they'd expect to be targeted and take some hits.

 

If there was indeed a vault to shelter military personnel then I would predict that it was overrun by the tunnelers as they were the original pre war inhabitants of Hopeville. The underground explosions from the accident that a player with high explosives skills mentioned previously would have caused further damage to the vault.

 

I'm not so sure, I think they would have to be exposed to radition to mutate into tunnelers. In re: to "player with high explosives skills" is that in regard to the explosions at Ulysses temple, or something else....I missed the reference.

 

Regarding the commisary machines I was never satisfied with their explanation.

 

Yeah they can be a little tricky, but I can work with them as a black box, regardless of how they function per se.

 

First of all I don't believe that the water source for Goodsprings is that abundant for another settlement to use. The people of Goodsprings may not mind letting a traveler fill up a couple of water bottles at the well but I don't think they've got that much water to share.

 

I'm not too worried about that. If we have a situation where it's a debatable question/opinion, and we don't actually have any data one way or another, it favors us as modders/authors to build the plot line.

 

Regardless of where the settlement would get water from in the Mojave I believe that the journey to the Divide is similar to that two week travel to Zion that is mentioned in the start of Honest Hearts. The fact that Ulysess mentions that it will take years for the tunnelers to reach the Mojave and that Big MT is located close to the Divide would suggest that the Divide is not directly located right beside the Mojave. I also believe that it's more likely that Big MT would be infested by the tunnelers before they reached the Mojave.

 

Oh no, I don't believe it's right behind the door, but I also don't believe it's a two week journey. The script doesn't set time forward like it does for the trip to zion. Re: the BigMT, I'm not too sure, I don't know where they lie in respect to each other. give me a shout if you find some info on the geography.

 

 

That tilted silo may offer shelter for players after killing off the respawning Marked Men and robots but I still don't see it as the basis for a small settlement. The only people I would expect to see in there would be Brotherhood scribes and/or NCR engineers attempting to disarm the remaining nuke.

 

It's a choke point (unless there's another way in from the Mojave region), so I suspect it will see the most activity, and so possibly be the best point for a settlement, just by virtue of it's location.

 

The only other tech in that area I would consider useful would be whatever it was that scanned and cloned Ed-E. I would probably want to call first dibs on that kind of tech.

 

Yeah interesting tech, but you'v got military pre-war tech all over, and for some factions that's pure gold.

 

OK so I feel like we're good to go with the "could" on the settlement. But feel free to bring up any new points of contention that we should address.

 

Next is the "should". Can we put together something that does the story justice, as opposed to just a bivouac of prospectors. Something that will reflect the possibilities and potential of the original settlement. This is where I need ideas from you guys. If it turns out we can't swing that, then we're probably better off dropping down to Devilman's suggestion of BOS excavation.

[blaze1514]

I would say the biggest threat to settlement are the tunnelers. I do like the GOW style "nuke the nest" idea. I would say the way to make this do justice to the divide itself and the former hopville settlement the tunnels will need to be removed as a threat. We can also do a Nellis style "sound keeps them away" quest with an emitter of some kind. If we did that there could be some extra quests attached to keeping a sonic emitter that large running (repair parts, MF Cells for power, the It might have unexpected effects on some people, getting some kind of guarding entity so it wouldn't be vulnerable to terrorists).

 

I would say the best way to start a quest like this would be an HH style expedition (with random prospectors). You get there, find something big but valuable (big so that you cannot just take it, for the sake of the mod). Then after most get slaughtered by the tunnelers (say 4 of six get killed in a scripted event) the rest then go and spread the word around the Mojave. That is when the people take notice. This big important thing plus the tunnelers draw the attention of others. Some group up and go for the fortune, others go to see the monsters themselves.

 

Forward a few days.

 

Eventually a few start sticking around. These are the people that form the "settlement" or "outpost". These people start realizing that the tunnelers are a real threat, they start trying to find a way to get rid of them. You obviously will need some serious tech help for this. Then you get the choice of who helps you

-NCR in acquiring manpower and a bio-weapon the weapon makes them sterile so they cannot reproduce, effectively ensuring the problem will solve itself in time (in return they want exclusive trading rights for all tech discovered and annexation rights if the area prospers again)

-BoS will give you a sonic weapon that will keep them away (They want the tech, not as in trading rights, as in all tech found has to be given to the BoS, For the sake of the settlement aspect of the mod they will pay a finders )

​-Remnants and Followers Make a chemical that repels/poisons them. After a sample is made and tested you will have to secure a way to get a lot of it made regularly. Maybe the Crimson Caravan will be interested as it will benefit them to secure the future of the mojave by having a means to deal with the Tunnelers (in return the enclave wants any weapons, and recognition, the followers would want access to any terminals databases or medical equipment found)

- No faction help, This is where you have to find a warhead of appropriate blast size, you then fight your way to the center of the tunnelers nest. You have to then make it out. (this will keep the independence theme that many players go for)

----Other ways thought of, A seismic emitter that will cave in the nest and many tunnels, somehow flooding the caves and nest, clogging all exits to the nests and filling it with a flammable gas then lighting it up.

 

After you deal with the main tunnel threat, you will need to secure the group from marked men and tunneler stragglers. Depending on what faction you had help and what way you killed them will determine the type of help available.

-A group of NCR troopers

-A small amount of BoS members training a malaita

-A merc force

-Etc.....

 

Then you realize that there are enough people that you need worry about food and water supplies.

 

Any other needs are taken care of next.

 

Loot/rewards (what is received depends on what faction is helping and agreements made).

-A custom Hopville power armor set (taken by the BoS)

-A custom Rifle (Taken by NCR)

-A custom laser rifle (taken by BoS)

-A advanced stimpack schematic (taken by BoS or Followers)

-A laser pistol (taken by the Remnants or the BoS)

-An Item that adds a useful perk when used (taken by the Enclave, Followers, or BoS)

 

That is the extent of my brain ATM. Anyone like any ideas mentioned?

[devinpatterson]

Then you get the choice of who helps you

Interesting idea on multiple quests based on faction. Might be something to consider/discuss if it's not too much extra work. Each quest will have some extra scripting (quest) and dialog, and depending on how deep you have to go into the recruiting of the faction it each one could be a mini mod in itself.

 

It would be even more interesting if we could pair faction quests with specific play styles. For instance the NCR faction includes rangers and uses a stealth play mechanic. BOS uses a small tactics style play through, a merc force is just straight up combat, etc. Probably too messy and too much work to implement, but it would individualize each quest and set them apart from the others.

 

After you deal with the main tunnel threat, you will need to secure the group from marked men and tunneler stragglers. Depending on what faction you had help and what way you killed them will determine the type of help available.

Three points on the tunnlers before I forget. Earlier in this thread or another one, Darkus and I had discussed them.

 

1. I never found a tunnler exit burrow in a hardened (read military bunker, silo etc) facility. So they'r not wolverine with adamantine claws, tearing through concrete and rebar at will.

2. Darkus had a idea that resulted in what I thought was a cool visual scene. He mentioned settlements on skyscraper rooftops. I was thinking if you threw in cable bridges and other arial related trappings linking various skyscraper rooftops, that could be a pretty cool looking post apocalyptic setting (somewhat like some of id's rage environments)

3. They'r abominations, they have, by they'r very nature, weaknesses that can be exploited (flares and flashbangs). A well informed, well equipped squad with the right equipment (and enough of it) could have a real advantage over the tunnlers.

 

To expand on #3 you could even have a play style based on teh vulnerabilities. Lets say a hi tech faction like the BOS rigs up a lot of microfusion powered super high luman lamps and a few hand spotlights from converted laser weapons (or something similar). These work great for the journey down, the laser spotlights make it a lot easier to progress, as the tunnlers flee when the spotlight beam merly contacts them. The microfusion lamps are dropped behind to keep your return path clear and the tunnlers keep well clear of them.

 

All is going well, you and the paladins are patting yourselves on the back at outwitting the gimped mutant freaks. Then comes the alpha queeen and tunnler nest. So that it's not all a cakewalk to the target, the tunnlers in the queens chamber continue aggressions in a berserk state ignoring the laser spotlights and or any lamps. The courier must set off a warhead (rig it to blow, possibly having to kill the queen first to expose the warhead) that was burried long ago in the chamber resulting in seismic disturbances that get progressively worse and more violent. Fleeting with any remaining paladins you have to rush from light to light in order not to be mobbed by the tunnlers. Somewhat reminiscent of the Kryll in GOW 1 (if you step out of the light the little bat like creatures devoured you), but possibly more challenging since the earthquakes are causing ruble to fall and randomly destroy the high lumen lamps that were left to safeguard your retreat/exit. And of course there's a limited time to get out before the tunnel system collapses.

 

Anyway something like that to make the play mechanic more interesting. In the case above it's a little more complicated since you want to start the seismic activity right after (or soon after) killing the queen, but you don't want the nuke to actually detonate (as in fusion/fission explosion, not a little laser finder explosion, a full scale nuke going off) until the timer runs out (at which points it would be best if the player was out of the tunnel system). So something to set off the tremors other than the nuke would be ideal.

 

 

Then you realize that there are enough people that you need worry about food and water supplies.

I think initially food and water will be recovered from the military facilities (bit of prospecting should reveal that provisions were made for military staff). But later down the road if a safe cavern is found, I think one crop that could be raised and protected from the divide's harsh environment would be cave fungas crops.

 

Some random ideas;

 

I'd like to throw in some occasional random earthquakes just for atmosphere.

 

There are a bunch of military resources from vehicles to what ever that are free to use and supplement the divide.

 

Earlier in this thread or another divide related thread there was mention of the idea of military survivors. They'd somewhat resemble the boomers, but be distinct in many ways. They'd have a hereditary command structure based on their ancestors rank (ie the "general" would be the leader, and his son would become the "general" when he died, etc). Their book of military rules and regulations have taken on a quasi religious significance. They still carry over the hyper patriotic attitude of the pre-war fallout world (speech patterns, attitude, paranoia of the enemy etc).

 

I think to make the player feel a sense of urgency, we should treat these mutants expansion similar to the swarming process of bees. A virgin queen will leave the hive with a lot of drones (after or secondary swarm) to reproduce another colony. Once a actual nest is found outside the divide it will become obvious to anyone with a high science skill or certain perks (Entomologist for instance), that the swarming process is starting and once independent colonies are established, containment is orders of magnitude harder and all would be lost. I think this will be a much more exciting direction than individual tunnlers showing up in the Mojave.

 

And last, would anybody be interested in a segment of the mod detailing the tunnlers existence? At the moment I can't find their origin story, but I believe they essentially were previously hopeville citizens that were trapped beneath the earth (I'm guessing during the initial detonations of the war) and mutated into the monstrosties they are now. They were trapped for centuries in a subterranean environment and only able to reach the surface after the courier triggered another launch sequence when returning the package from avarro. The nukes created fissures deep to their lair.

 

This could be a vault origin story. Whether through chance or design (the famous vault experiments) the hopeville population that thaought it was safely protected by vault-tec technology were exposed to a horrible mutation. Their story, along with details of their physiology, could be documented in their vault facility. Perhaps this vault failed naturally (a great seismic event that exposed and destroyed part of the vault to subterranean fissures/caves) or perhaps like the ghouls of vault 12 the vault was designed to fail and allow massive doses of radiation. Or perhaps it was a separate fev experiment to create something of a "genetic engineered" human for a extraterrestrial environment (the enclave were considering off planet based colonies). Whatever the cause a (semi) abandoned vault could really tie things together (them being trapped underground and surviving etc).

[Devilman1975]

Here's some further thoughts and responses I have on the Divide.

 

Re: Divide Settlement

 

 

The community, what really ignited a ideal and hope in Ulysses was lost and hasn't been restored. There is the possibility for redemption for Ulysses (depending on speech checks), sacrfice (ed-e) and limited atonement for the courier (although his/her only crime was trusting in the NCR's competency). But the courier hasn't restored what may have been unique in the wasteland (the settlement).

 

Any potential that the original settlement had is long gone when the Courier activated the nukes after delivering the mysterious package. When the Great War happened 200 years ago the area would have already sustained some damage from the nukes. Maybe it was lucky enough not to get by a large number of nukes when House was able to destroy a good portion of them on the day the Great War began. After 200 years the background radiation would have dropped to safe levels when the Courier first discovered the area. When we reach the Sunstone Tower rooftop in Lonesome Road we see where the original community was located and I seriously doubt that any settlement can flourish in state that it's in now. If the Courier was attempting to create a place he can call home then I would consider the Divide as an epic fail.

 

As I mentioned before for a settlement to survive it would need a source of clean water, be able to grow crops, breed brahmin and attract settlers and merchants who could raise families there. You're not going to be able to find those things there and what kind of sick b@$/@£d would consider bringing his family to that hellhole when the Mojave and Vegas is safe enough for them?

 

If you need further evidence then here is the Fallout wiki's description of the Divide's current layout:

 

" The remains of a decent sized city has rendered large portions of the Divide inhospitable, thick with traps and enemies. Care should be taken when navigating these areas as players can be caught off guard. A large amount of wreckage and rubble from the military base is present early on but thins out as the player progresses. The highway is crumbled and destitute with many sections collapsed making anything more than linear exploration impossible; buildings half buried in ash and sand making the land seem dead and desolate. The northern area is utter chaos; the ground torn apart as if an open wound. The area is also swarming with marked men and deathclaws hiding in the ruins of the city. The Divide also contains multiple undetonated warheads throughout, which the player can manipulate during game-play. "

 

Re: Brotherhood in the Divide

 

If the Brotherhood were in the Divide previously when the accident happened then I think it would be believable for the Mojave Brotherhood to leave behind a small team of scouts to monitor the NCR and Legion conflict in the Divide. Anything larger then I'm sure that Ulysses would have mentioned something about the Brotherhood staking a claim in the area too.

 

If your adding in Brotherhood Marked Men then I would suggest making them few in number and not set to respawn. It's okay for normal Marked Men to respawn as it would indicate the large numbers that both sides sent into the Divide.

 

 

Secondly the Mojave BOS would have come into conflict with the NCR as they moved into the Divide some time before the Legion did.

The timeline is OK for interaction before hostilites start (sometime between 2274 & 2276), so I'm ok with this one. In addition they may have had butted heads, could even be part (among many others) of the reason they sat their sights on the BOS.

 

Here's the link relating to the NCR/Brotherhood http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR-Brotherhood_War . The exact date for the war is unknown but it is believed that it started after 2246. Even if the Mojave chapter chose not to engage the NCR before 2274 the NCR would have still considered them an enemy as they were at war with the whole organization.

 

Lastly power armor would have prevented the wearer's skin from being flayed by the dust storms. They might have become a normal ghoul instead if they were lucky.

I don't think they protect against the nukes, we can see that in Colonel Royez's unfortunate transformation to a marked man, in the long 15. In addition, over time (from the 2nd detonation to the present day) additional parts of teh power armor will be worn down, damaged etc increasing exposure to the elements.

 

I was going to say that Col Royez may not have been wearing his power armor when the Long 15 is hit due to scavenged power armor stripped of it's servos being very heavy for the wearer. However after looking on the wiki page for Royez's armor I discovered it's the only power armor that is fully operational and is only used by high ranking NCR officers so I'll concede that point to you.

 

Re: Tunneler threat

 

I don't think that collapsing a network of tunnels will do much to deter the Tunnelers considering their ability to dig through anything except solid concrete. Even if they can't dig their way through an underground structure they will just dig their way around it.They may not be as deadly as Wolverine but what makes them dangerous is their numbers. They have been in existence for 200 years and have been breeding and multiplying like rabbits for all that time.

 

However you choose to deal with the Tunnelers I think that it would be a good idea to come up with scientific means to deal with them whether it involves a bio weapon or some kind of phermone device that attracts the whole lot to an area that can be nuked. I think there should be a mission to retrieve the corpses of a few Tunnelers and Queen to take to whatever science team the player has at his/her disposal.

 

I don't think that the Followers of the Apocalypse could do much in this scenario as they have an aversion towards weapon technology and I can't fathom any of them coming up with a bio weapon. The Brotherhood, Big MT Think Tank, NCR IOS and Dr Henry would probably be capable of coming up with something.

 

It would be hard to find somebody in the Legion with the necessary science skills but I'm sure that there must be some scientists living in settlements located in Legion territory. They may not be much opportunities for a scientist there but if the Legion needed some scientists to assist the Courier then I'm sure that some will arrive after they or their families been threatened with crucifixitions if they choose to decline.

 

Even if Lanius has no desire to deal with the Tunneler threat I'm sure that a few high ranking members of the Legion will secretly ask for the Courier's aid in dealing with this threat.

 

Re: Distance between the Divide and the Mojave

 

 

Oh no, I don't believe it's right behind the door, but I also don't believe it's a two week journey. The script doesn't set time forward like it does for the trip to zion. Re: the BigMT, I'm not too sure, I don't know where they lie in respect to each other. give me a shout if you find some info on the geography.

 

After looking on the Fallout wiki I found out that it's a three day journey to the Divide from the Mojave.

[devinpatterson]

Maybe it was lucky enough not to get by a large number of nukes when House was able to destroy a good portion of them on the day the Great War began.

Pretty unlikely if it's 3 days away

 

When we reach the Sunstone Tower rooftop in Lonesome Road we see where the original community was located and I seriously doubt that any settlement can flourish in state that it's in now. If the Courier was attempting to create a place he can call home then I would consider the Divide as an epic fail.

Link to Sunstone Tower being the settlemnt? Don't think the courier was ever planning to call it home.

 

 

As I mentioned before for a settlement to survive it would need a source of clean water, be able to grow crops, breed brahmin and attract settlers and merchants who could raise families there. You're not going to be able to find those things there and what kind of sick b@$/@£d would consider bringing his family to that hellhole when the Mojave and Vegas is safe enough for them?

Nah your only considering what you think a settlement is defined by, for sake of your argument. Did rivet city have massive sources of clean water before project purity? Did it grow crops and breed Brahmin? etc.

 

" The remains of a decent sized city has rendered large portions of the Divide inhospitable, thick with traps and enemies. Care should be taken when navigating these areas as players can be caught off guard. A large amount of wreckage and rubble from the military base is present early on but thins out as the player progresses. The highway is crumbled and destitute with many sections collapsed making anything more than linear exploration impossible; buildings half buried in ash and sand making the land seem dead and desolate. The northern area is utter chaos; the ground torn apart as if an open wound. The area is also swarming with marked men and deathclaws hiding in the ruins of the city. The Divide also contains multiple undetonated warheads throughout, which the player can manipulate during game-play. "

Yep that's a description of the divide and includes many of the challenges the courier deals with in the DLC

 

Re: Brotherhood in the Divide

 

If the Brotherhood were in the Divide previously when the accident happened then I think it would be believable for the Mojave Brotherhood to leave behind a small team of scouts to monitor the NCR and Legion conflict in the Divide. Anything larger then I'm sure that Ulysses would have mentioned something about the Brotherhood staking a claim in the area too.

 

If your adding in Brotherhood Marked Men then I would suggest making them few in number and not set to respawn. It's okay for normal Marked Men to respawn as it would indicate the large numbers that both sides sent into the Divide.

No problem, I was just thinking one squad (makes them a little more unique).

 

 

Here's the link relating to the NCR/Brotherhood http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR-Brotherhood_War . The exact date for the war is unknown but it is believed that it started after 2246. Even if the Mojave chapter chose not to engage the NCR before 2274 the NCR would have still considered them an enemy as they were at war with the whole organization.

No hostilities listed before 2274, the mojave faction didn't follow the core region BOS's lead;

 

As the Mojave Chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel operated freely among the wastes around New Vegas for several years, they were extremely frustrated when the NCR dispatched troops to the Mojave, although they initially restrained themselves from getting involved in the war. In 2274, the NCR set its sights on the Mojave chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel, led by Elder Elijah, and sought control of their main base, HELIOS One. In 2276, the NCR attacked HELIOS One and Elijah ordered his troops to protect the facility.

 

Re: Tunneler threat

 

I don't think that collapsing a network of tunnels will do much to deter the Tunnelers considering their ability to dig through anything except solid concrete. Even if they can't dig their way through an underground structure they will just dig their way around it.They may not be as deadly as Wolverine but what makes them dangerous is their numbers. They have been in existence for 200 years and have been breeding and multiplying like rabbits for all that time.

I couldn't offer an opinion on their numbers or rate of reproduction per se, but they;

 

"had no direct contact with the surface world until atomic warheads beneath Hopeville detonated when the Courier unintentionally brought a package from Navarro containing nuclear launch codes. This atomic firestorm caused great earthquakes and savage storms which split open the earth, thus revealing the surface to them."

 

It was the nukes that opened up fissures or other means of egress for them, they didn't dig their way up.

 

However you choose to deal with the Tunnelers I think that it would be a good idea to come up with scientific means to deal with them whether it involves a bio weapon or some kind of phermone device that attracts the whole lot to an area that can be nuked. I think there should be a mission to retrieve the corpses of a few Tunnelers and Queen to take to whatever science team the player has at his/her disposal.

Sounds like a good quest

 

After looking on the Fallout wiki I found out that it's a three day journey to the Divide from the Mojave.

Link?