Honest Hearts expanded

[theDemonJackal]

I added the above as a thought of making children feel more at ease around the Robo-Rangers. Lets face it. How use to them would some kids be?

[devinpatterson]

Sounds great. And posters really are needed for the visitor center. I also think you make a good point in re: to children and the protectron park rangers. The forest service would see it as essentail that they trust them after all they are there in emergencies, like lost hikers (so you don't want the shorties to avoid them). And you want the kids to seek them out and feel comfortable telling them if there is trouble or a violation.

 

But instead of all of them protectrons, I think I'll make some smokey the bear and just one or two protectron posters (and a few human park rangers posters). The smokey thing is because I made a little easter egg. It's a teddy bear with a park ranger hat, and a little shovel that says "only you can prevent forest fires" when you pick it up or drop it. When I get home from work I'll put a pic up. If a player had the wild wasteland perk it would be funny (well actually silly, but that's the WW perk for you) if having it in your inventory made Yao guai friendly to the player.

 

Speaking of shorties, it's odd to me the crashed scout bus didn't have a scoutmaster outfit (like with a plus to survival skill) or a scout handbook like in FO1&2 for an increase in survival skill. Seems like that would be good to add.

 

On a different note, I got a kick out of little lamplight from FO3. I wanted to re create that in a mod with a wizard of OZ themed, Emerald shopping mall (which reminds me I need to create a thread for). I thought the kids could have escaped from a legion slave party when it met with a disastrous end (deathclaw or something). Or it could just be a slaver party (sans legion)

 

 

The kids could be a real mix. Anything from tribals to kids of vault dwellers. It might be fun to do that here (in some ways Zion is a more hospitable environment than the Mojave wasteland). And this setting is so different that I don't think it would impact at all on the Emerald malls mod I have in mind. They could have a sort of elite recon, that wear scouts clothes and have learned some survival skills from scout's manuals. The lone vault dweller child could be the jury rigging expert (some shot gun traps, getting a working generator running, maybe even has a laser pistol etc). Kids from some different tribes to create some tension and dynamics. Large wood log baricades on the door to prevent the bigger carnivores coming in. Anyway the key here being the little lamplight feel and being able to mix any type of peeps from other lands to give the kids a edge (large variety of skills).

 

They would be just as superstitious (think of the kid tribe in mad max beyond thunderdome), but not the same as the tribals. So they wouldn't have any problem scavenging from "the Ancients" (forget the term they use for taboo locations).

 

Could be fun.

[theDemonJackal]

I love the idea of a set of tribals (especailly kids[note: not that way]) setting traps in the forest for you. As for a wizard of Oz theme, isnt that the major theme of OWB's? A heart, A brain, and A spine(Courage).

While I do love the idea of a mall nearby, might I suggest that it was under construction when the bombs dropped leaving weapons for the child tribals in the form of Sledgehammers, Nail guns, buzz saws(auto-axe), pieces of timber/metal, and some other tool like weapons.

Also the failed mall construction leads to a more dangerous area due to weak structure's that cant support a "lot" of weight (hint).

[devinpatterson]

I love the idea of a set of tribals (especailly kids[note: not that way]) setting traps in the forest for you. As for a wizard of Oz theme, isnt that the major theme of OWB's? A heart, A brain, and A spine(Courage).

Good point, that does tie in well with OWB. But for the Wizard of Oz theme, that's really tied into teh other mod I'm brainstorming.

 

While I do love the idea of a mall nearby, might I suggest that it was under construction when the bombs dropped leaving weapons for the child tribals in the form of Sledgehammers, Nail guns, buzz saws(auto-axe), pieces of timber/metal, and some other tool like weapons.

Also the failed mall construction leads to a more dangerous area due to weak structure's that cant support a "lot" of weight (hint).

So the mall adn the Oz theme was just a bit of background for the other mod. But I *really* like your idea of the construction related weapons. And I think we could do the same thing with a forest service truck or ranger station that does mantenaince on park structures. Give the kids access to chainsaws, industrial hand (I think that's the one with the buzzsaw), tools like sledges you mentioned (I'm already recreating a shovel for a weapon, ala point lookout, fire axes, others), arc welder etc.

 

In the Emerald City mall mod, the kids help to keep people away by some of the technology (a giant Wizard of Oz visage hologram that used to announce sales and specials), but they also used some lower tech methods too. One of them being fireworks which I'm working on. The little lamplight tribe can use some of the same methods. Perhaps a cache of confiscated fireworks and a rigged up PA loud speaker system (Oooooooo scary ghost sounds) give the valley they live in, the name "Valley of Angry Spirits" or "Valley of Angry Lights" and keeps the other tribals far from them.

 

We could also say they recovered a lot of bear repellent from one of the scavenged Ranger Stations. Between that and teh methods listed above you'v knocked out two of the biggest predators in Zion as a problem for the kids.

 

Although at some point a threat will arise that they can't deal with and the Courier will be the one to take care of it. However in return s/he will gain a temporary boyscout or girlscout follower (like the temp tribal followers) that will lead him/her to where they recovered all the ranger stuff.

 

The one downside is that my fireworks require LR (they are based off LR rockets for the mulicolored roman candles) and some of the industrial tools like the nailgun and arc welder. But maybe I can rebuild them without LR assets.

[theDemonJackal]

"Valley of Angry spirits" is a bit on the nose. "Valley of Angry lights" on the other hand is mysterous and whimsical (perfect for a child tribe setting)

The threat that arises could be another tribe. This formed from exiles of "The Light Watchers"(name idea for the tribe).

As stated before, new tribes brings a whole new opportuinity for showing different (or in this case ridiculous) political structure in a group. For example:

- One idea I had just now was that(Like Little Lamplight) once the children reach a certian age they are seen as unfit to be normal members of the tribe and are reduced to hunters. That could be how the courier finds the cave leading to the forest. A dead body of an adult in foriegn war paint with a map leading to the area.

- The new threat could be the Robo-Rangers. They could be controlled by one of the exiles of the child like tribe, who (can now be an old man) used his years of learning to en-act his revenge.

 

Also as an easter egg(also if theres other kinds of robo rangers)[see if you get these refs]:

"Discipline Ranger Irons says theres no dragons in the forest."

"Ranger H-Andy likes to keep the place clean. Wont You help him?"

[sgtKraigO]

Personally I don't think we should change too much in Zion other than add 1-2 tribes and a few NCR ranger stations

[devinpatterson]

"Discipline Ranger Irons says theres no dragons in the forest."

"Ranger H-Andy likes to keep the place clean. Wont You help him?"

Cr*p, I'm afraid I can't nail down either of them, but would love to hear where the refs come from

 

Personally I don't think we should change too much in Zion other than add 1-2 tribes and a few NCR ranger stations

NCR Rangers are teh equivalent of our special forces (ie they are force multipliers) and typically are assigned to very difficult adn dangerous missions. I just can't imagine any reason to put them in Zion, when they are needed so badly elsewhere. The NCR has no resources or citizens in Zion to protect. Legion are a far greater threat than tribals.

 

I'm not sure we'd have much of an expansion if we only have two additional tribes. We can create more worldspace to house other tribes.

[theDemonJackal]

H-andy is a joke based on Mr. Handy. But also Richard H. Ranger, who I was looking up prior to making the post. That wasnt the reference though.

The dragon one is from "Rugrats The Movie" where the babies are driving around the forest in that Reptar buggy and the two rangers think its some kind of a dragon.

As for another little easter egg, hows about having a walking eye bot.

" Ranger Walker here is always watching you "

[sgtKraigO]

 

Personally I don't think we should change too much in Zion other than add 1-2 tribes and a few NCR ranger stations

NCR Rangers are teh equivalent of our special forces (ie they are force multipliers) and typically are assigned to very difficult adn dangerous missions. I just can't imagine any reason to put them in Zion, when they are needed so badly elsewhere. The NCR has no resources or citizens in Zion to protect. Legion are a far greater threat than tribals.

 

I'm not sure we'd have much of an expansion if we only have two additional tribes. We can create more worldspace to house other tribes.

 

 

Zion has (from what I can tell) fairly fertile soil and sending troops into it to secure the land so it could be farmed would mean forcing the tribes out. There could be a few troopers but mostly rangers since they would be able to move around the land much easier than troopers. I would like to see the NCR securing Zion after the Legion has been dealt with. This would allow more troops to be sent there and if the Legion is trying to assimilate some of the tribes it would give the impression that they're still a threat and can come back.

 

The way I view it is if you send a large number of regular troopers to fight the tribes head on, they could use guerrilla tactics which would result in the unnecessary lose of troops. If you send in some Rangers with a few troopers for defensive measures then it would allow for faster movement, stealthier options, and the tribes would have a more difficult time using guerrilla tactics since the rangers could hinder their movements.

[Devilman1975]

Personally I don't think we should change too much in Zion other than add 1-2 tribes and a few NCR ranger stations

NCR Rangers are teh equivalent of our special forces (ie they are force multipliers) and typically are assigned to very difficult adn dangerous missions. I just can't imagine any reason to put them in Zion, when they are needed so badly elsewhere. The NCR has no resources or citizens in Zion to protect. Legion are a far greater threat than tribals.

 

I'm not sure we'd have much of an expansion if we only have two additional tribes. We can create more worldspace to house other tribes.

 

Glad to hear that these extra tribes are getting their own world spaces. I wouldn't want to see Zion Canyon oversaturated with more tribes. Then again I would also like to see a version or a mod which allows the player to remove critters just so I can enjoy the scenery.

 

I think it's also important to focus on the various end results of Honest Hearts. If the player helped the Sorrows evacuate then more White Legs should be found in Zion. If the player helped Joshua fight for Zion then both the Sorrows and Dead Horses will fight against the 80s (raider tribe that finally killed off the White Legs) but as time goes by the Sorrows tribe will develop into a war like tribe.

 

This would also be an interesting expansion for Legion players if the White Legs are still around. The player can make the choice of following Caesar's orders and put an end to the tribe or allowing them to live (help them evacuate Zion Canyon this time :laugh: ). The best evil scenario I can envision is setting up a fake inauguration ceremony for the White Legs admission into the Legion. Have them drugged into a deep sleep in order to separate the men, women and children easily and execute the men after they awake or decide to make a sport of it and hunt them down one at a time. :devil:

 

I wouldn't want to see the NCR move into Zion Canyon either as I don't see any of value in the area for them. The only sign of civilization I would expect to see is a caravan or a small merchant hub from Happy Trails Trading Company if they are still in business. If the NCR ever found out that Joshua is still around I'm sure that will put them against the Dead Horses if they want to capture or kill Joshua.

 

Wiki info on Happy Trails:

 

"Happy Trails is based in Sac-Town, north of Shady Sands, and does most of its business with New Reno and on the road to Salt Lake City. They are competitors with the Crimson Caravan for trade. After several seasons of bad trading, and since the loss of contact with New Canaan in 2281, the company is in dire financial straits and is preparing to launch an expedition to New Canaan via Zion Canyon in order to reconnect with the Mormons there."

 

Here's some wiki info on the 80s tribe if you plan to add them to the game.

 

"The 80s are a tribe of raiders that live in northern Nevada, near the shores of the Great Salt Lake. Their territories border with those of their longtime enemies, the White Legs.

The 80s are known for raiding frontier towns for supplies and kidnapping people. They are rightly feared for their ability to cover large areas of land with very few men. They have recently spread out over a larger area, notably the I-80, due to the collapse of the Nevada Desert Rangers and NCR's inability to patrol or keep tabs on the territory."

 

and J.E Sawyer's Fallout RPG version (not confirmed as canon but here it is anyway)

 

"The 80s are a tribe of raiders that operates along the northern California 80 Freeway, mostly in the region northeast of the lawless, uncontrolled city of Sacramento. They are easily recognized by the "80" signs they wear strapped across their chests. High-ranking members usually have the Interstate 80 red and blue signs, while lower-ranking members wear green Highway 80 signs, and the ordinary grunts make do with what is left over. The 80s are known for their tireless pursuit of enemies and for their occasional use of motorcycles."