Honest Hearts expanded

[theDemonJackal]

 

 

"The 80s are a tribe of raiders that operates along the northern California 80 Freeway, mostly in the region northeast of the lawless, uncontrolled city of Sacramento. They are easily recognized by the "80" signs they wear strapped across their chests. High-ranking members usually have the Interstate 80 red and blue signs, while lower-ranking members wear green Highway 80 signs, and the ordinary grunts make do with what is left over. The 80s are known for their tireless pursuit of enemies and for their occasional use of motorcycles."

 

See. I like this. This could be what the kids tribe are fighting against. While the White legs have their hands full in zion, just a little north (besides the oild based tribe which I love) the 80s are fighting gurrilla warfar with these kids for the technology they possess.

[devinpatterson]

sorry swyping on my phone, so just a short msg.

 

Honestly I don't believe Zion is even on the radar for the NCR. They have dire need of the rangers. Hoover will break the stalemate and you can bet the legion will intensify it's strategy of "bleeding the bear". It's hard to say if the NCR will try to focus more of it's energy securing it's prize or push for an advance while it has the advantage, but things are about to change and Zion isn't even a footnote in that.

 

Yeah I was always interested in the 80s because of the bikes. I really wanted a biker gang as enemies.

 

It shouldn't be a problem to keep that uncrowded feel for additional troops, plus it's always nice to have new landscapes (novelty for the players).

 

BTW Devilman1975 & SgtKraigO I'm pretty slammed do you think either of you guys might be able to gather the LR & HH entries we had in the independent NV thread and move here and over to the LR expanded? Great if you can, no worries if you can't.

 

Anyway I'll chime in with something more useful when I'm in front of my desktop.

[devinpatterson]

so I was thinking there might be room for a compromise on the NCR angle. What if we have a single ranger operating in the Desert Ranger MO, but from teh NCR point of view operation as an advance scout to keep an eye on terroitory a little further north (ie legion land) and the goings on between there and the Mojave (caravan routes etc).

 

Then if a small group of settlers were to move to zion, s/he would go into desert ranger mode (the shadow that watches over them, while passing back and forth on his/her duties) like they did before joining the NCR. There wouldn't be a ranger hq or anything. Probably a little safehouse that is little more than a small cave with some supplies, for reequiping when s/he passes through.

 

That way it fits with the priorities of the NCR (legion) but also allows the ranger to check in on the little group of settlers, watch over an occasional caravan etc.

 

Maybe later, if the caravan routes become safer and (more importantly) more frequently traveled a small NCR garison of a half dozen or dozen men could be set up near(ish) zion (but linked through a pass to the world space.

[sgtKraigO]

I like that idea. Maybe the NCR would like to annex the small town if it grows large enough, if they do then maybe theres an option to wipe out the tribes in order to expand, ally with them which would stop them from joining the Legion, or force them out of Zion which would result in most of them joining the Legion (except the Sorrows and Dead Horses which would go back to Dead Horse Point.)

[devinpatterson]

I like that idea.

Awesome, always good when we have a meeting of the minds

 

 

Maybe the NCR would like to annex the small town if it grows large enough,

Or you could go with them being NCR settlers (at least in spriit if not in actual legal fact). But I think either will work. Im not all that well versed in lore, but if I recall correctly a lot of the Veteran Rangers were formally desert rangers. They would singlehandely watch over wastelanders and the weak (through skill, stealth adn just being general bad*sses). So I think the vertern ranger they send will keep an eye out for settlers whether they are NCR or not, but s/he might be a little more motivated (debatable) to keep an eye on NCR peeps.

 

But yeah either way would work.

[sgtKraigO]

 

Maybe the NCR would like to annex the small town if it grows large enough,

Or you could go with them being NCR settlers (at least in spriit if not in actual legal fact). But I think either will work. Im not all that well versed in lore, but if I recall correctly a lot of the Veteran Rangers were formally desert rangers. They would singlehandely watch over wastelanders and the weak (through skill, stealth adn just being general bad*sses). So I think the vertern ranger they send will keep an eye out for settlers whether they are NCR or not, but s/he might be a little more motivated (debatable) to keep an eye on NCR peeps.

 

But yeah either way would work.

 

 

What if they were NCR settlers with some troopers mixed in but they didn't show it so that way if there was any anti-NCR sentiments in the tribes they could actually settle it, set up defenses, and get the lay of the land before pushing out the tribes. The Ranger could be there to monitor the tribes and warn the settlers of any planned attacks and could aid in thwarting them.

 

The desert rangers did merge with the NCR Rangers when they started scouting the Mojave, but they ceased too be known as the Desert Rangers. One of the conditions upon signing was that the NCR had to protect Hoover Dam and Nevada from Caesars Legion.

[theDemonJackal]

Im actually going to look over some of my old posts for anything That I can relate to this mod, because im pretty certian I had a few ideas for tribal characters in the past.

[devinpatterson]

The desert rangers did merge with the NCR Rangers when they started scouting the Mojave, but they ceased too be known as the Desert Rangers. One of the conditions upon signing was that the NCR had to protect Hoover Dam and Nevada from Caesars Legion.

Actually the story is a bit more involved. The desert rangers were bad*asses no doubt about it, but they were few and far between. When war ensued with the legion (initially in AZ, but spreading quickly to NV) it didn't go well for the desert rangers. So the legion is the central theme in the ranger unification treaty, and are the factor that actually forced the dessert rangers to join the NCR (their backs were up against the wall). The desert rangers home is/was primarily NV though, so it wasn't that they started scouting the Mojave and ran into the NCR, it's actually the reverse.

 

I tend to see a greater proportion of vetern rangers as mostly former desert rangers, although I don't know if that's explicitly stated by lore or not.

 

Anyway they have a great reputation and will fit well as a one man army in this role.

[devinpatterson]

Im actually going to look over some of my old posts for anything That I can relate to this mod, because im pretty certian I had a few ideas for tribal characters in the past.

I hear you brother, I'v got three threads I need to go through and copy to this one. Two of them aren't a big deal, probably under 6 pages, but the independent NV thread is like a 150, so I may have to go back 30 or 40 pages to get everything.....weekend project.

[Devilman1975]

Here's my Honest Hearts post from 15th August 2013 with research into endings and some ideas.

 

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On the subject of the DLC's, I've been doing some looking into the endings for Honest Hearts. Sorry, but this is going to be a long post and I have a lot to cover.

 

The endings for Honest Hearts depends on the fight (Joshua) or flee (Daniel) options but there is also the Chaos In Zion quest which begins when the player kills story related NPCs. Triggering this quest prevents the other quests in Honest Hearts from being completed and result in Zion Canyon becoming the White Legs new stomping ground. Another variable is the player's decision to let Joshua kill Salt's-Upon-Wounds, killing him personally or convince Joshua to spare him. Anyway here's what I've found;

 

White Legs

 

Flee Option - If the player evacuates the Sorrows from Zion Canyon to the Grand Staircase then the White Legs will have their appeal to join the Legion refused because they had not yet killed the New Canaanites who escaped to Grand Staircase. In a half-hearted effort to find the New Canaanites they were ambushed by Dead Horses trained in the ways of Joshua Graham. The White Legs lose hope of joining the Legion and break up into smaller raiding parties that end up polluting Zion Canyon.

 

Chaos In Zion - Killing Daniel will have the White Legs overrunning and plundering the place and remove any trace of the other tribes. On a related note I would suspect that the White Legs petition into the Legion will not go the way the want. Considering the Legion's past treatment of betraying tribes I can see the Legion not having the inclination to teach them english, let alone some Latin. I can see the males being put to death and the females becoming baby machines for the Legion in their efforts to burn out their tribal ways. Could be an interesting mission for a evil Legion player acting as an emissary.

 

Fight Option - Asides from some minor changes the end result is always the same with the White Legs retreating from Salt Lake City. Convincing Joshua to spare Salts-Upon Wounds- will see the 80s tribe hearing that he has become a broken man and decide to overun their camps, scattering the White Legs to the winds and take Great Salt Lake.

 

Killing Salt-Upon-Wounds yourself will have the White Legs tracking down the New Cananites to Colorado and fall into ambushes set up for them with Dead Horses killing any that flee. When word of the White Legs reduced numbers reached the 80's tribe then war is declared and the White Legs are wiped out by the end of the year.

 

Allowing Joshua to kill Salt-Upon-Wounds will result in the White Legs fearing further reprisals and flee into Wyoming only to lose half their numbers after the first winter. Then they break up into smaller parties.

 

Sorrows

 

Flee option - Evacuating the Sorrows in addition to completing the tasks given by Daniel will result in the Sorrows making it to the Grand Staircase and eventually accepted the loss of Zion. If the player evacuated the Sorrows without doing any of the tasks then a number of Sorrows will die in the evacuation. Those that survive will be unable to accept the loss of Zion.

 

Fight option - This option will turn the Sorrows from a peaceful timid tribe to a warlike one which Daniel had feared. The option to spare Salt Upon Wounds will allow the Sorrows to curb their militaristic ways which Daniel takes some small consolation in. The option to let Joshua kill Salts would turn the Sorrows over time to be ruthless in their dealings and even with each other. Daniel is said to negotiate between the New Canaanites and the Zion tribes for peace but is shunned later on. The option for the player to kill Salts will still turn the Sorrows into a proud and warlike tribe but mentions nothing about them turning on each other.

 

Dead Horses

 

Chaos In Zion - If Joshua is killed then the New Canaanites will contact the tribe. In respect for Joshua's memory they will help protect the New Canaanites territory.

 

Flee option - After helping the Sorrows evacuate the Dead Horses return to Dead Horse Point. The tribe would continue to learn from the New Canaanites and build a flourishing community on the banks of the Colorado river over time. However the Dead Horses seem to revere the legend of Joshua Graham over the New Canaanite's teachings.

 

Fight option - Relations between the Sorrows are neutral for a time but as years pass periods of conflict occur with the New Canaanites and Daniel trying to mediate between both groups but found it hard to reconcile the tribe's conflicts.

 

Happy Trails Caravan Company

 

Chaos In Zion - With the failure to contact the New Canaanites and other negative experiences in Zion, this will force the company into bankruptcy within six months and dissolve.

 

Flee option - The New Canaanites decide to repay Happy Trails for their assistance by sending a trade caravan twice a year to their office in New Reno. This allows the company to stay in business but only just.

 

Fight option - With the White Legs defeated this allows the company to establish contact with the New Canaanites and a secure trade route into Zion every two months and the company returns to prosperity. With the Sorrows and Dead Horses defending Southwest Utah resulting in both tribes uniting against the 80's tribe and driving them back from Highway 50 which opens up another trade route for Happy Trails.

 

Follows-Chalk

 

His ending relies on his quest Civilized Man's Burden which results in him staying with his tribe or choosing to one day leave his tribe to wander westward into the wilderness never to be seen again. It would be nice to pick up Follows-Chalk as a companion if the player convinced him to explore the world.

 

Waking Cloud

 

Her ending is tie into her quest A Family Affair where the player chooses to inform her about her husband's fate or choosing to keep her in the dark. Hiding the truth will result in her finding out later on and causing problems between her tribe and the New Canaanites. Telling her the truth will result in her forgiving Daniel and later taking a husband from the Dead Horses.

 

Joshua Graham

 

With the exception of killing him Joshua's ending is tied in with the player's handling over Salt-Upon -Wound's fate. Sparing Salts or killing him yourself will curb Joshua's militaristic ways (even more so with the decision to spare Salts). Otherwise Joshua will begin training his army in the way of the Canaanite and have the Zion tribes and New Canaanites being seen as groups to be feared.

 

Daniel

 

With the exception of killing him we've got the fight or flee options for his ending. If the player helps Daniel evacuated the Sorrows then he will remain with them at the Great Staircase. If the player chooses to help Joshua defend Zion then Daniel will remain but will find it hard to stop the tribes increasing militancy and will eventually return to his home in Dead Horse Point.

 

And that's what I've got for the Honest Hearts endings. I'm sure we can find some ideas in the endings to work with. In addition to the endings I've found mention of two other Zion tribes called the Tar Walkers and Crazy Horns that helped the New Canaanites earlier on and that the White Legs had wiped out at the start of Honest Hearts. There is not a lot of information on these tribes but I'm sure some survivors can be created into an expansion.

 

Another idea would be for setting up a new settlement at Three Marys if the White Legs were kicked out. This settlement can be founded by the survivors of the Tar Walkers and Crazy Horns and would be open to any friendly tribals. I can imagine some missions where the player would have to negotiate with the elders of the Sorrows and Dead Horses who were not seen in the original game. The idea of this settlement would be for good karma characters who want to see the tribes coexist together.

 

Seeing the 80's tribe would also be something worth putting in at some point. There is not a lot of information on them but they are known to be enemies with the White Legs and raiding frontier towns in Northern Nevada. They are said to cover large areas of land with just a few men which would make me think that they are a biker gang. Considering that the player is indirectly responsible for the 80s taking over the White Legs territory it might be good to see Great Salt Lake created as a new location that the player can try to take for the New Canaanites after a long and bloody battle.

 

I also like the idea that Devin had for the tribe descended from Vault 22 survivors, I'm sure that can also be added in to the expansion.

 

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