Could a B-29 be used like an AC-130

[sgtKraigO]

In another thread I came up with the idea of the NCR possibly acquiring and repairing the crashed B-29 and using it in a mission. http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/710978-ncr-new-vegas/page-5

 

My question is, could it be realistically possible to attach a minigun or shoulder mounted machine gun and a grenade machine gun or a red glare and use it in a support role similar to that of an AC-130? I'm assuming the aircraft would fly lower than an AC-130.

 

If this were possible in real life, could it be possible to replicate in NV? The way I imagine it is the player would see the bomber circling the battlefield with bullets and rockets/grenades occasionally raining down from it. When it's in the hanger one of the bottom gun turrets would be replaced with a minigun while the other would be grenade machine gun or red glare.

[dangman4ever]

Maybe. The real B-29 had fire control computers (or what passed for them in the 1940s) for their .50 machine guns. Considering that C-47, a plane from the same time period as the B-29, was converted to fire miniguns 20 years after WWII, it's possible to fit mini-guns at least to a B-29 gunship. I don't think the airframe could take anything heavier than that.

In regards to how low the plane would fly, it depends on what weapons the B-29 is fitted with. The original AC-47 and early AC-130 gunships were equipped with miniguns that had a max range of roughly 3,000 ft. The latest AC-130 models have chain-guns and auto-cannons that can hit from 10,000 to 20,000 feet up. But I doubt the B-29 could handle those newer weapons systems. Anyway, the B-29 would probably fly the same altitude as the AC-47 and AC-130 if fitted with miniguns.

As to replicate in NV, I'm not sure. Weapon projectiles generally don't travel far or actually make contact at long range in NV. The gunship would have to fly really really low in order for the weapon projectiles to make "contact" with the ground. In addition, grenades are not an option since they have a relatively short range. That's why the majority of weapons used by fixed-wing gunships are auto-cannons, chain guns, gatling cannons, miniguns, and even straight-up howitzers.

Though maybe whatever projectile they used for the Enclave mortars from FO3 or the Boomer howitzers might work. Bombs obviously work.

[sgtKraigO]

 

Maybe. The real B-29 had fire control computers (or what passed for them in the 1940s) for their .50 machine guns. Considering that C-47, a plane from the same time period as the B-29, was converted to fire miniguns 20 years after WWII, it's possible to fit mini-guns at least to a B-29 gunship. I don't think the airframe could take anything heavier than that.

In regards to how low the plane would fly, it depends on what weapons the B-29 is fitted with. The original AC-47 and early AC-130 gunships were equipped with miniguns that had a max range of roughly 3,000 ft. The latest AC-130 models have chain-guns and auto-cannons that can hit from 10,000 to 20,000 feet up. But I doubt the B-29 could handle those newer weapons systems. Anyway, the B-29 would probably fly the same altitude as the AC-47 and AC-130 if fitted with miniguns.

As to replicate in NV, I'm not sure. Weapon projectiles generally don't travel far or actually make contact at long range in NV. The gunship would have to fly really really low in order for the weapon projectiles to make "contact" with the ground. In addition, grenades are not an option since they have a relatively short range. That's why the majority of weapons used by fixed-wing gunships are auto-cannons, chain guns, gatling cannons, miniguns, and even straight-up howitzers.

Though maybe whatever projectile they used for the Enclave mortars from FO3 or the Boomer howitzers might work. Bombs obviously work.

 

 

I can't picture the aircraft being able to carry large weapons with a howitzer round explosion radius. They would also have to carry the men to fire and reload, the ammunition, and a few bombs to drop. But then again I don't know the lift capacity of a B-29.

 

What is the max range of a minigun/SMMG and and red glares? Is there anyway of extending it in the GECK?

 

EDIT: Wikipedia says it's 133,500 lb (60,560 kg) ; 135,000 lb plus combat load

Not sure what the 135,000lb plus combat load means though.

Edited March 30, 2014 by sgtKraigO

[dangman4ever]

The B-29 could carry up to 20,000 lbs of bombs (Look in the Armament section of the B-29 wiki page). The C-130 (which the AC-130 is based off) can carry up to 45,000 lbs of cargo. The M102 105mm howitzer that the later AC-130 models are equipped with has a weight of 3,298 lbs. A single 105mm round is around 33lbs to 40lbs. In theory the B-29 could carry it. But as I said earlier, I don't think the airframe could handle that kind of recoil. The C-47 and the C-119 could carry 6,000lbs and 10,000lbs of cargo respectively. Yet the AC-47 and AC-119 were never equipped with a howitzer.The CV-130 is a newer design than those planes and therefore could handle the howitzer recoil.

As for the max range, not sure how to translate the max range of those weapons to their real life counterparts. The SMMG uses 10mm pistol rounds which IRL are generally extremely short-range. Like 70 meters or so. For comparison, the 5.56mm round that the Service Rifle uses, depending on the rifle and bullet load, has a range of about 550 meters. The 5mm round used by the mini-gun, if using RL examples, probably have an shorter range than the 5.56mm round since, in general, the smaller the bullet, the less powder it carries and therefore the shorter range. Since 5mm is smaller than 5.56mm....

Just for completeness sake, the mini-gun used by the AC-47 and the early AC-130s fired 7.62x51mm NATO rounds. The 7.62x51mm NATO is closely resembles the .308 Winchester which in turn is a close approximation of the .308 round used in FNV's Battle Rifle, Hunting Rifle, This Machine, Sniper Rifle, etc.

[sgtKraigO]

 

As for the max range, not sure how to translate the max range of those weapons to their real life counterparts. The SMMG uses 10mm pistol rounds which IRL are generally extremely short-range. Like 70 meters or so. For comparison, the 5.56mm round that the Service Rifle uses, depending on the rifle and bullet load, has a range of about 550 meters. The 5mm round used by the mini-gun, if using RL examples, probably have an shorter range than the 5.56mm round since, in general, the smaller the bullet, the less powder it carries and therefore the shorter range. Since 5mm is smaller than 5.56mm....

 

Unless the NCR decides to make a minigun that fires .308 rounds they might get away with using gatling lasers and tesla cannons. You wouldn't happen to know the effective range of a laser would you? ;)

[Markley454]

 

 

As for the max range, not sure how to translate the max range of those weapons to their real life counterparts. The SMMG uses 10mm pistol rounds which IRL are generally extremely short-range. Like 70 meters or so. For comparison, the 5.56mm round that the Service Rifle uses, depending on the rifle and bullet load, has a range of about 550 meters. The 5mm round used by the mini-gun, if using RL examples, probably have an shorter range than the 5.56mm round since, in general, the smaller the bullet, the less powder it carries and therefore the shorter range. Since 5mm is smaller than 5.56mm....

 

Unless the NCR decides to make a minigun that fires .308 rounds they might get away with using gatling lasers and tesla cannons. You wouldn't happen to know the effective range of a laser would you? :wink:

 

Shrapnel / Ahztek's Weapon Overhaul has a M134 Minigun that shoots .308 rounds in the game. Not a very accurate gun, obviously, but it's range seems to be pretty realistic.

(I'm actually quite curious as to why this weapons mod seems so hard to find... It's an excellent mod.)

Edited March 30, 2014 by Markley454

[MarchUntoTorment]

Firstly -

 

Why only the NCR? Why not other factions? (Hell, why not the Boomers themselves doing it?). I mean, I can see why the Legion wouldn't, but House would want that kind of firepower in a heartbeat, and my independent Courier is definitely a military type, so he'd easily see the advantage in constructing such a weapon.

 

For that matter, since the player usually allies with Boomers in the NCR path, why not simply have the Boomers rig it up?

 

But Dangman is correct - it's likely to be impossible to turn a B-29 into a heavy gunship. Any airframe is put under immense stresses in flight, let alone one that's been sitting at the bottom of a lake for three hundred years. It could mount lower-recoil weapons such as miniguns and maybe even a 25mm autocannon, but nothing more substantial than that.

[MarchUntoTorment]

Firstly -

 

Why only the NCR? Why not other factions? (Hell, why not the Boomers themselves doing it?). I mean, I can see why the Legion wouldn't, but House would want that kind of firepower in a heartbeat, and my independent Courier is definitely a military type, so he'd easily see the advantage in constructing such a weapon.

 

For that matter, since the player usually allies with Boomers in the NCR path, why not simply have the Boomers rig it up?

 

But Dangman is correct - it's likely to be impossible to turn a B-29 into a heavy gunship. Any airframe is put under immense stresses in flight, let alone one that's been sitting at the bottom of a lake for three hundred years. It could mount lower-recoil weapons such as miniguns and maybe even a 25mm autocannon, but nothing more substantial than that.

[dangman4ever]

 

 

 

As for the max range, not sure how to translate the max range of those weapons to their real life counterparts. The SMMG uses 10mm pistol rounds which IRL are generally extremely short-range. Like 70 meters or so. For comparison, the 5.56mm round that the Service Rifle uses, depending on the rifle and bullet load, has a range of about 550 meters. The 5mm round used by the mini-gun, if using RL examples, probably have an shorter range than the 5.56mm round since, in general, the smaller the bullet, the less powder it carries and therefore the shorter range. Since 5mm is smaller than 5.56mm....

 

Unless the NCR decides to make a minigun that fires .308 rounds they might get away with using gatling lasers and tesla cannons. You wouldn't happen to know the effective range of a laser would you? :wink:

 

Shrapnel / Ahztek's Weapon Overhaul has a M134 Minigun that shoots .308 rounds in the game. Not a very accurate gun, obviously, but it's range seems to be pretty realistic.

(I'm actually quite curious as to why this weapons mod seems so hard to find... It's an excellent mod.)

 

That weapon mod doesn't exist on the Nexus because the user who created it was banned. Apparently someone accused him of stealing assets from other modders for that Overhaul mod.

 

 

Unless the NCR decides to make a minigun that fires .308 rounds they might get away with using gatling lasers and tesla cannons. You wouldn't happen to know the effective range of a laser would you? :wink:

 

Why couldn't the NCR decide to make a minigun that fires .308? It's feasible for the NCR since many of the NCR Heavy Troopers are equipped with miniguns and miniguns aren't exactly "high-end" technology. The operating principle behind the gun, gatling-style, has been in existence since 1862. The difference between 5mm and 7.62mm isn't so large that it represents a major engineering hurdle. Just look how the M249, a LMG that normally fires 5.56mm, was modified as the Mk. 48 to fire 7.62mm rounds. In addition, the 7.62mm minigun used by the AC-47 and early model AC-130s was actually a down-sized variant of the M61 Vulcan cannon which fired 20mm rounds.

Edited March 30, 2014 by dangman4ever

[sgtKraigO]

Firstly -

 

Why only the NCR? Why not other factions? (Hell, why not the Boomers themselves doing it?). I mean, I can see why the Legion wouldn't, but House would want that kind of firepower in a heartbeat, and my independent Courier is definitely a military type, so he'd easily see the advantage in constructing such a weapon.

 

For that matter, since the player usually allies with Boomers in the NCR path, why not simply have the Boomers rig it up?

 

But Dangman is correct - it's likely to be impossible to turn a B-29 into a heavy gunship. Any airframe is put under immense stresses in flight, let alone one that's been sitting at the bottom of a lake for three hundred years. It could mount lower-recoil weapons such as miniguns and maybe even a 25mm autocannon, but nothing more substantial than that.

 

1. Because it's for an NCR based mod, I'm sure it could be used by other factions. http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/710978-ncr-new-vegas/page-5

 

2. I'm not trying to fight a howitzer onto it, just a minigun and red glare. But due to the lack of range of the miniguns it's not very realistic.

 

This is directed towards anyone that's reading this; if a B-29 was equipped with a 25mm or .308 minigun and a red glare or even a missile launcher, do you believe the fram of the aircraft could handle that amount of stress. Keep in mind the minigun wouldn't be used in full auto, just long bursts and the red glare/missile launcher would be used less often.