Make Body Less Rigid and Liftable

[unknowngst]

I bet a lot of you would think this thread is redundant by just reading the title, but please, read on.

 

I tried these mods:

- Movable Bodies

- Realistic Magic Force Ragdoll

 

I did a search on tesnexus with related keywords "ragdoll" "mov bod" "lift bod", etc...none of them return any satisfying record.

 

Problem with Movable Bodies:

-It doesn't work with SI installed.

-Some claims that they got it to work by changing file date. But I tried even more: changing file date, modify and save with TES4CS, esp->esm->esp convert, made sure it's the last in load order, blah blah blah, none of them works...

-It doesn't improve the ragdoll. Vanilla ragdoll is too rigid for some blast-away-fun with spells. And no, MagicForceHigh makes the dead bodies fly high and far, but doesn't change the rigidity of their limps...still not as fun.

 

Problem with Realistic Ragdoll:

-I really love this mod, I can't go back to vanilla after I enjoy its ragdoll and liftable bodies.

-some race (such as the Demon Race) modifies the same files, as such they are not compactible. Demon race is a quite popular and amazing race mod...unable to use it along with Realistic Ragdoll is really annoying.

 

 

I have posted in the thread of Realistic Ragdoll, requesting the knowledge/guidance on releasing a compactibiility patch for demon race (http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?showtopic=90992&st=10), but it seems that the author is dormant...so I decided to bring this issue here.

 

Anyway, even if none of you are willing to start on it, I am more than willing to take the task up. However, I am very very very new on TES4CS and NifSkope. I just started playing oblivion about a month ago. If I were to start on it, I really need someone to point me in the right direction. Explicitly, I wish to know what are the possible ways to change rigidity of ragdolls, and make dead bodies liftable.

 

Now, when I say "make dead bodies liftable", I don't mean those that you achieve with "Carry Corpse" spell provided by Reneer's Guard Overhaul, or the svaToMoveObject mod...in both mods, the dead body is "carried"/"lifted" without ragdoll active...it looks and feels very weird...very not immersive.

 

What I hope to achieve is to either:

1) Release a public compactibility patch for Realistic Ragdoll + Demon Race, and probably all other races which is conflict with Realistic Ragdoll later if I got the extra time.

2) OR even better, find a way to achieve/simulate Realistic Ragdoll with JUST AN ESP file. I am not sure whether this is possible, but it's the best thing all of us could ever hope for, I think.

 

 

So please, someone with the knowledge/ability, please start it if you have the time.

Otherwise, please help pointing me the right direction. I wish to know:

1) Where are the values that determine the rigidity of ragdoll lies?

2) Where are the values that determine the weight/"lifty-ness" of dead bodies? Other than weight factor, what makes me able to lift a cup, but not a dead body? Is there anything special that differentiate a dead body with a cup (both "dead" object)?

3) Is there any possibility of achieveing/simulating less-rigid ragdoll + liftable bodies by JUST using an esp file?

 

Thanks for the help!

[LHammonds]

The Realistic Ragdoll mod actually modifies two different things. Gameplay (via .esp plugins) and the human and creature skeletons (NIF files).

 

The primary thing you are looking at here are the skeleton modifications. If you read through his description, you will see that he modified the grab points on the skeletons to be a single lift point which is almost universally the thigh bone. Some creatures he avoided because they were "looked" too big for a player to be moving and some creatures simply were too buggy when being picked up because of morph glitches.

 

I assume the "SI Fix" only touched on the Gameplay (plugin) changes and did not alter or add the skeletons that SI added...such as the demon races.

 

I would advise you take a look and compare what the normal human skeleton looks like in NifSkope to the Realistic Ragdoll human skeleton. See what settings were changed between the two files. Hopefully it is something you can change with just NifSkope but it might require importing into Blender to make certain changes and then re-export. I don't know.

 

I hope this actually helps you look in the right places for what you are wanting to accomplish.

 

LHammonds

[unknowngst]

The Realistic Ragdoll mod actually modifies two different things. Gameplay (via .esp plugins) and the human and creature skeletons (NIF files).

 

The primary thing you are looking at here are the skeleton modifications. If you read through his description, you will see that he modified the grab points on the skeletons to be a single lift point which is almost universally the thigh bone. Some creatures he avoided because they were "looked" too big for a player to be moving and some creatures simply were too buggy when being picked up because of morph glitches.

 

I assume the "SI Fix" only touched on the Gameplay (plugin) changes and did not alter or add the skeletons that SI added...such as the demon races.

 

I would advise you take a look and compare what the normal human skeleton looks like in NifSkope to the Realistic Ragdoll human skeleton. See what settings were changed between the two files. Hopefully it is something you can change with just NifSkope but it might require importing into Blender to make certain changes and then re-export. I don't know.

 

I hope this actually helps you look in the right places for what you are wanting to accomplish.

 

LHammonds

 

Thanks for the advices, but I tried that, and that's exactly why I am asking questions like: "What are the values" blah blah blah. There's over 360 entries in skeleton.nif and skeletonbeast.nif, and each entry contains a lot of settings (some less, some more).

 

To scan over all of them manually would be a very daunting task...and very ineffective. If my eyes didn't catch 1 essential difference in value/setting, god knows how would that affect the outcome. Thus I hope for more specific guidance, or maybe tell me where I could find such info? Hope you understand, thanks!

[LHammonds]

I understand that but I don't think the original author had any such help at all. There must be something that can be figured out via observation. But I am not sure if that is inside NifSkope or Blender.

 

The very first thing I'd look for is "what makes the thigh bone" special in regards to why Oblivion targets it has a hand-hold location.

 

LHammonds

[unknowngst]

I understand that but I don't think the original author had any such help at all. There must be something that can be figured out via observation. But I am not sure if that is inside NifSkope or Blender.

 

The very first thing I'd look for is "what makes the thigh bone" special in regards to why Oblivion targets it has a hand-hold location.

 

LHammonds

 

Well, I don't know much about the original author. It's possible that he's already an experienced user with NifSkope, and knowledgable enough with Ragdoll/Havok before he even started playing oblivion. I am merely a humble newbie in anything of this sort.

 

But you are right, I'll start looking at the thigh bone. Still, modifying things without enough/solid understanding of the "big picture"/foundation can be quite fatal in the long run...nevertheless I am satisfy as long as I can replicate, or just get somewhere near the original mod. I was hoping for some link/website/tutorial for beginner about ragdoll modifcation for oblivion, but I guess such convenience doesn't really exist? I did a search before on such topic, but sadly too much returns I can't find anything specific enough.

 

Thanks again, LHammonds. Anyone else willing to share his/her knowledge/experience is more than welcomed to do so, I bet a noob such as I need as many help as available :P

 

What I really afraid is: The true "trick" lies not in NifSkope, but something else such as Blender instead...then all the time and effort will be just wasted...

[LHammonds]

What I really afraid is: The true "trick" lies not in NifSkope, but something else such as Blender instead...then all the time and effort will be just wasted...

You'd be surprised how many "Blender" dudes and dudettes are floating around here. Also check on the Bethsoft forums as well in the "Construction Set" forum.

 

LHammonds