A few issues and a few questions

[oblivion9794]

I wasn't sure if i should put this here or in Mod Troubleshooting so if this is in the wrong location i apologize.

Also beware, this post may end up being long.

 

So i'm fairly new to skyrim modding. I got a new pc so i kinda lost my mind and installed a large amount of mods, all at once. I probably only skipped about 5 mods out of 200+. I'm not too sure what i did to cause it but now my skyrim main menu just has an infinite loop and won't finish loading(i just see the logo and smoke, no more "continue" or "new game"). I've tried running the SKSE Skyrim and the normal Skyrim, same issue.

The odd thing is that this happened when i disabled a few mods (i started to realize i probably have too many mods on and need to tone it down some). I knew my normal save would probably just give me an infinite loading screen so I planned to start over for the 4th time, but of course i can't even do that now.

 

I use NMM,SKSE, and usually let BOSS handle the load order since i'm still too new to this to figure out what an optimal load order would be. The game still worked when i did this but i also cleaned my main skyrim files use TES5Edit(i have legendary edition so i cleaned the 3 dlc as well).

 

And the boss log (hope i did this right)

 

 

SKSE Version: 0.1.6.16
CharacterMakingExtender_plugin.dll
chargen.dll
nioverride.dll
showRaceMenu_preCacheKiller.dll
These plugins are recognised by BOSS and have been sorted according to its masterlist. Please read any attached messages and act on any that require action.

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Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp Version 2.0.3 Active
Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
Note: It is highly recommended that you also use the Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.
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Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp Version 2.0.3 Active
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HearthFires.esm Active
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AOS.esp Active
Note: See also AOS compatibility patches page on Nexus.
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DSpSoB.esp Active
Requires: Neovalen Race Compatibility.esp
Note: Make sure you use Dawnguard version.
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ShootingStars.esp Version 1.041 Active
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Note: Make sure you have not switched DoF off in your ini file. If you don't see any effect, open you Skyrimprefs.ini and look for 'bDoDepthOfField'. Make sure it is set to 1.
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Note: RaceMenuPlugin is optional and provides support to alter Height, Breast, Glute and Biceps. If you experience issues with it, disable RaceMenuPlugin.esp and inform the author.
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Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Delev, Relev}}
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Warning: Contains unexpected (or out of order) records. A compatibility patch fixed and cleaned with TES5Edit can be obtained here. (Compatibility Patch)
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Note: Use only one ERSO 03.4 esp.
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Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Relev, Delev}}
Note: Use only one ERSO 03.5 esp.
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ERSO 05 - Dovah Holy Book.esp Active
ERSO 06 - Wait More Time Dragon Encounter x3.0.esp Active
ERSO 07 - Slighty Mighty Dragon Priests.esp Active
Note: Use only one ERSO 07 esp.
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Note: Use only one ERSO 09 esp.
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Bash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Relev, Delev}}
Requires: Skyrim -Community- Uncapper for full perk functionality.
Note: If lockpicking is not work then try to delete 'interface\lockpickingmenu.swf'.
Note: If you have a problem with aiming try to install this mod.
Note: To make aiming easier add the following lines to Skyrim.ini:
Note: [Actor]
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Note: [Combat]
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Note: V1.1+: This file contains 3 deleted NavMesh records that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically, and which are reported by the mod author to be harmless artifacts from Creation Kit export.
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Warning: This file contains 2 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.
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Borderlands.esp Active
Warning: This file contains 34 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.
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Warning: If you are running Dragonborn you should use the Dragonborn compatibility patch included in the installer.
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DragonmournInn.esp Active
Warning: This file contains 4 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.
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Warning: This file contains 7 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.
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Warning: This file contains 9 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.
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Warning: This file contains 2 deleted NavMesh record(s) that TES5Edit cannot repair automatically and it may cause problems with your game. NavMesh deletions should be reported to the mod author. A guide to repairing NavMesh deletions with TES5Edit is located here.
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Thanes Basement.esp Active
TheDomain.esp Active
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Convenient Horses.esp Version 14950 Active
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SoS - Civilization.esp Version 1.02 Active
Note: Do not use the Crash Fix ESP for this mod. It is flagged as a master and is only meant as a last resort for fixing crashes.
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Warning: UFO - Heartfire AddOn.esp required to work properly with Hearthfires (Official Bethesda DLC)
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The following plugins were not found in the masterlist, and must be positioned manually,using your favourite mod manager or by using BOSS's user rules functionality. You can submit unrecognised plugins for addition to the masterlist directly from this log by clicking on a plugin and supplying a link and/or description of its contents in the panel that is displayed.

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Long list, so again i wouldn't be surprised if the number of mods caused it, though it'd be kinda demotivating to know i can't use a bunch of mods to change my overall game.

 

That's the first issue. About the second problem:

 

Prior to this, i had made my third save(first two saves had a few problem mods and wouldn't load without them so i just moved on) because for some reason my game keeps freezing. It used to CTD but that stopped, I don't quite remember what i did to stop that. I'm fairly certain the freezing was due to conflicting mods or just an overabundance in texture mods(i did a little research to try to fix the problem on my own and that seems like the likely issue). I notice certain locations are fine but i started having problems just using a simple "coc" console command. Sometimes i'll use it and then my character will still be in the same area, other time i'll just hit an infinite loading screen. This save game had a few hiccups but functioned overall, it just randomly started giving me issues the further i got in it.

 

Now for the questions...

 

Before posting I did some searching about my problems and (correct me if i'm wrong) it seems like even if you have a lot of VRAM to use, Skyrim won't use a lot of it? Like in my case i have 8gb so i assumed that it'd be free to utilize all of it, thus i figured i would have no issue with using a bunch of high quality texture mods. Whenever my game would freeze, i'd have to open task manager to close it and it usually used about 2gb but nothing too much higher (the exact number varied). Can i get some clarity on this if someone doesn't mind?

 

Also, I'm thinking of getting into Skyrim modding, and especially delving into this community, but i'm not sure what a good start would be. I have modded games before, but nothing major or substantial, just little things to have fun(like making pistols shoot rocket bullets and things like that).

On one hand i feel like i'd like to create new weapons and armor, but then i'd love to make my own custom quests as well. I definitely want to make new animations as i feel like that adds something nice yet subtle to the game. I tend to have a bunch of ideas, so that's never an issue (other than being overly ambitious and never finishing the big ones). I've never been one thats majorly keen on nor adept in the technical aspect of things, but more of the aesthetics, so more technical focused mods i'd probably avoid. I guess i'm asking what would probably be the good start to get used to how things work, and what would probably take up less personal time (unless it's solely based on the person, then nevermind).

 

Once again, sorry for the long post but hopefully i can get some help here.

Thanks.

[Georgiegril]

You are not gonna like my advice, but IMO you would ultimately save time and frustration by starting over. To this end, the below may help you.

Help for trouble-free modding:

1. Go to STEP and follow the directions to revert to vanilla skyrim.

2. Start a new game, do not attempt to apply an old save, it will not work and may reintroduce corruption back into your now clean game.

3. Do not make any changes at all until you exit Helgen (the other option is to start with an alternate start mod to avoid the Helgen sequence.)

4, Before making any changes, read everything available on the subject. If it is a mod, read every last word of the readme, description, discussion thread, everything. If it is an ini change, google it, visit a few reputable sources and determine if it is worth trying. Just because one guy puts up a list of his ini changes and swears buy it does not mean it will work for you, and it might even make things worse. When considering any change, mod, .ini file, setting, whatever, consider it in light of your own system hardware and software and the other mods/changes you intend to make. Investigate any possible conflicts before adding it.

5. When you are ready to make any changes (mods, ini settings, anything) attempt only 1 or two at a time. If it's a mod, run BOSS. BOSS is a regular program, not a mod. There is a useful vid for BOSS, here. Set it up to generate the log in .txt format, not html. Read the log and address any messages. In any case, play a bit to test for stability, performance, and compatibility. Make sure to properly place the unrecognized mods as instructed by the mod author, or use TES5Edit or WryeBAsh, or if all else fails, place it with similar mods that are recognized, though that is more trial and error. Also, a number of excellent mods require you use skse. You can find it here. It now has an automatic installer. on that page, you will see there is a link to a readme, which you should read for help understanding the program. There is also another gopher vid to help you set it up, here.

6. If you notice any negative effect of your change (not just crashes, but performance loss, glitches, anything), Stop. Do not attempt to keep playing and definitely do not add any new variables into your system. Investigate the possible causes. If it is a mod and you want to try to remove it, then remove it, but be sure to follow the author's removal instructions exactly. To be safe, go back to the save from just before you added it. (This is easy of you are slowly adding mods, but extremely painful if you add everything at once, play a bunch and have no idea where the problem lies. ) This will also help you avoid with script problems from removed mods that will continue and may get worse.

7. If you get stuck, post a detailed question before you get frustrated. Detailed means t include your BOSS log, noting how you placed unrecognized mods, other supporting programs you have used (like TES5Edit, skse, Any texture optimizers, enbs, etc.) Also provide your computer specs, any changes to your driver profile and/or skyrim ini files. Finally, provide details about the crash--how long you've had it, what changed before you first noticed it, any patterns like time playing, specific areas or activities like opening a menu or such. Explain what you have already tried to fix the problem and what the results were.

8. Once you get your mods and other changes the way you want them, your game is stable and performing well, then stop. Every time you add or change any variable, you are inviting instability. If a new mod shows up and you think you just have to have it, ask yourself if it is worth having to start all over for--because, you may have to. If the answer is yes, then go ahead and try it and if your game crashes, well, you were willing to take the risk.

Recommendations for maintaining a trouble free game:

1. I personally suggest avoiding the Steam workshop for mods, because it will automatically update and sometimes even remove mods in your list, which can cause your game to die. Also, playing with Steam in offline mode will prevent unexpected updates from causing havoc.

2. Disable auto updates and avoid using quicksave, as these increase the chance of savegame corruption. Also, if your save does become corrupt, you will need to go back to your last working full save, which can be extremely painful if you rarely make them. You can do this by going into your Prefs.ini text file and then making sure the following lines look like this:
[Main]
bSaveOnPause=0
bSaveOnTravel=0
bSaveOnWait=0
bSaveOnRest=0

[saveGame]
fAutosaveEveryXMins=0.0000

For people who want the convenience of auto save with the functionality of a full save, there are a few mods you might check out, such as Ishara's Normal Numbered AutoSaves

Here is Gopher's vid on BOSS and his Beginner's Mod Tutorial

 

 

If you are unwilling to do that at this time, then I suggest you take care of all of the messages in your BOSS log, For example you have a bunch that require TES5Edit cleaning. Make sure you have all needed patches and master files, and properly hand place the unrecognized mods. I'd also carefully re-read all f the mod pages for the unrecognized mods, since BOSS will have no info on needed masters/patches, and open them up in TES5Edit since BOSS will not have info on whether they need cleaning.

 

After that, if you are still having problems, you could try Save Game Script Cleaner to deal with the problem from those mods you removed. Generally I am very wary of save cleaners, but this one does appear more promising. I have not needed to try it though. Any time you use a save game cleaner, you need to accept the risk that you may fry your game. So this would be the last thing to try.

 

After doing all that, if you are still crashing, I think you may want to revisit my first suggestion. Building a game properly takes a lot of time--days, even more, maybe. But the result is a stable game you can enjoy playing rather than fixing for months.

[bben46]

Just because you can install a lot of mods that doesn't mean you should - Number one mistake made by beginners is to install a bunch of mods all at once - That is nearly guaranteed to lead to an unplayable game.

Not every mod is compatible with every other mod - and sometimes there is NO way to make them work together.

BOSS is not a cure all for mod problems, it is just a suggested load order - It's not always right, but it is the best thing we have for ordering mods

READ the BOSS log and do what the notes suggest - they are there for a reason.

Even the best system can bog down when there are just too many heavy duty mods installed. Lighten up on your system

The absolute maximum number of mods that can be installed is 255, but most systems fail long before that - it will depend on what mods you use.

 

READ the documentation on every mod before you install it - Often the author will tell you if it is not compatible with something else, or if it needs something else to work.

 

Mods that make changes to the same things will often conflict - most often the last one loaded will just overwrite the previous one ( making the first one not do anything and just take up space) But, sometimes it causes a crash.

 

8G of Vram? re you sure you don't mean System Ram? Vram is the ram on your video card. And very few have even 4G of Vram - and those are very expensive. System ram is the ram installed on your mother board. And the absolute maximum that Skyrim can use is 4 G - this is a limitation of the game engine and cannot be 'fixed'. Anything over 4G of system ram can be used for background programs, but having a lot of background stuff can cause other problems.

 

Other info. just having too many mods in the data folder can cause problems - even if they are not all being used. - the number is well over 400 so this is not often seen.

 

Learn to use both Tes5edit and Wrye Bash They can help with dirty edits, conflicts and merging to cut down on the number of mods.

[oblivion9794]

I actually don't mind starting over. I've done it 3 times already lol. The only annoying thing for me is having to keep remaking my character, but other than that i don't mind at all.

 

I'll take a look at doing those suggestions once i make Skyrim Vanilla again (i didnt know the autoupdates even existed and didnt know that in conjunction with autosave can make the save corrupt). I'll also look at the BOSS tutorial.

 

 

Building a game properly takes a lot of time--days, even more, maybe. But the result is a stable game you can enjoy playing rather than fixing for months.

I'd rather spend weeks making my game work than months fixing something broken.

 

-

Once the first bits of freezing and crashing happened, i figured the amount of mods would be the cause. I wasn't aware the Maximum number was 255. That's good to know.

After the first failed game, i went back and started re-reading the mod notes and what mods were needed. Most just needed SKSE, though of course few others wanted different mods. I'm sure i missed a few but didnt really stress it since the game worked at the time. I notice quite often though the author will add "recommended" mods but not "required" mods.

 

In regard to the BOSS notes, the reason i didnt clean those mods it suggested is because i read somewhere (i forget where) that sometimes even though a mod will have dirty edits and such, sometimes they are intentional so cleaning could actually make things worse, and since i barely know what im doing, i didn't want to destroy my game further.

 

I sort of figured mods that affect the same thing would conflict when both active which is why i went back in and disabled mods (i have a few that affect snow) but it gets hard to decide what to enable and disable when it comes to character textures (specifically i'm referring to UNP and CBBE, things of that nature). I try to get mods that are CBBE compatible (i was suggested CBBE by a friend since they have had no issues with it though i'm kinda leaning toward UNP now) but i know some mods are not CBBE compatible and i just kinda figured if i had both active, the mod would have to work. Clearly i'm mistaken but i just felt like explaining my reasoning.

 

I did mean 8gb of RAM, not VRAM. Not sure why i wrote that :pinch:

It's a shame there has to be that limit, though i guess its better than having people break down their pc's over a game.

 

I'm not asking for you to hold my hand or anything, but what or who have the better/proper and tutorials about TES5Edit and Wyre Bash?

I don't want to learn about these things in the wrong way, or miss important info about the programs/what i'm doing with them.

 

Thank you both for the info and thanks for even replying in such a short time period. Although the second part of my question wasn't answered, i guess i should deal with my issue first :laugh:

Edited April 24, 2014 by oblivion9794

[Georgiegril]

Hi, I don't follow STEP as such (Mainly because my GPU is below their minimum specs...sigh), but they have a lot of very useful information (like the revert to vanilla. guide I linked.) They also have good guides and links to utilities, and their forum contains discussions on these that also may be useful to you.

 

Here is a link to their page with links to their guides. Have fun!

[postal001]

I would try your mods without high res textures first, if you have them installed. Too many of them can make tracking down mod problems very difficult.