Delusions of Grandeur

[Relativelybest]

I really like the idea of mods, and I would love to make my own. This is probably because it's the closest thing I've yet come to making my own games. But therein lies a certain problem that I keep running into when I start thinking about making one: my ideas always get entirely out of hand. They grow and evolve and expand until they are finally so large that what I'm considering more resembles an entirely new game or major expansion then a mod.

 

This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if I was a really skilled modder. However, I am not. Quite the contrary, I'm a rank amateur with only the bare basic knowledge of how the construction set even works, and no inherent talent to speak of. I should be focusing on something relatively easy, like making a treasure chest with actual items inside or something.

 

It started back when I was playing Fallout 3, and got this idea that involved improving the Talon company to make them more menacing. From that came an idea for a series of quests that would involve a lot of encounters with the new and improved Talons. And then that led to a quest about finding these secret pre-war AI computers. And then that led to a giant mess of conspiracy theories, alien invaders and dark secrets. And all of this would culminate in this huge battle in the vast underground tunnel-compex I was going to put underneath Washington DC.

 

It was a great story. Unfortunately, I never even got as far as step one. Oh, I tried, but while I'm good at thinking of ideas for mods, I really don't have the talent for realizing them.

 

Well, now I'm back, playing Oblivion and it's the same thing all over again. At first I just wanted to make a huge castle, but then I started thinking about what to put inside that castle, who would live there and why, and then I started thinking of various quests to take place in that castle, and then those ideas led to more ideas, and out of that grew this epic mythology and now I have the same kind of enormous project in my head that I'm pretty sure would take years to complete even if I did have the necessary skills. (Which I don't. In fact, I've managed to forget what little I did learn back when trying to mod Fallout 3.)

 

I have a long, long list of places and people and quests I want to put in this Samuel Taylor Coleridge Kubla Khan-style pipe dream of mine. And even thought I know it's an unrealistic ambition, I can't really stop thinking about it because -at least inside my head- it's just really, really awesome.

 

I dunno, does anyone else here experience this? I figure I can't be the only one, or at least I hope I'm not.

[Rabbit1251]

I don't know. Right now my biggest challenge is how to get the underwear off of my girl in Fallout. Just take things one little challenge at a time. In the end you just glue the little successes together and find that you have created a masterpiece.

 

 

Rabbit

[myrmaad]

I don't know. Right now my biggest challenge is how to get the underwear off of my girl in Fallout. Just take things one little challenge at a time. In the end you just glue the little successes together and find that you have created a masterpiece.

 

 

Rabbit

 

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c117/SeaBlossom/icons/tilt.gif

[bben46]

Yeah, overboard is common. I see too many neophyte modders that show up with grandiose plans and no possible way to accomplish them all in one lifetime. They usually get discouraged fairly quickly by the magnitude of the task. Start simple. then build on it. Lay out a long range plan, and start buy making a simple mod. Then when that one is working, make another that will work with or complement the first. Make a larger mod that incorporates the first two - allow it to grow as far as you can. But when it's no longer fun, let it go. When you find yourself making mods because your fans demand it, and not because that's what you want to do. Find a new game.

[grmblf]

yeah man sometimes it's hard but try to start small and let your mod grows as you can handle it, otherwise... well, you know what happens. My advice is that you try to focus your mod on a very specific goal so you could always have a clear reference of what you're doing and what you should do next. Don't let your mod to be a placeholder for all your dreams, decide wich kind of mod you want to make and simply make it, but do what you have (carefully) designed, nothing more and nothing less.

 

Let's say you want to start building up a big castle. First it'd be convenient that you think a bit of what's gonna be inside, to have a vague idea of the number of people it should host, etc, but once this is clear and you know wich kind of castle you want then go for it. If in the middle of the process you start to think of very cool NPCs and quests, writte it all down in a text file but don't start to mess things up, continue with your castle, and once you've finished it, then you can start making the other additions. It's what bben says about going by steps, it's the only way to go, actualy.

[3rdtryguy]

I absolutely feel your pain.

In truth, most of my mod ideas never got, and never will get, off the ground at all simply because they're just too awesome. I make little bitty things all the time, and I do mean little bitty, but the really good stuff is simply beyond my wildest hopes.

 

For example, one major mod I planned was an epic of little odd discoveries all over Cyrodiil which led to clues and to more clues and to a search and finally to nothing less than finding the lost tomb of St. Alessia. Naturally, that sort of thing would make a lot of people very upset, ( imagine someone finding the body of mohammed or Jesus ) especially considering the curse on the tomb's seal... long story short--> civil war in Cyrodill, with everyone suddenly getting a re-assignment of factions so they'd choose sides and fight! The player's job would be to somehow get everyone to calm down and solve the mystery of the can of worms this opens, after which everything would return to normal, pretty much.

Yep, I fully share your problem.

Now all I want to do is let the player, as Champion of Cyrodill, build a sprawling estate, over time, via several quest stages during which the player does important stuff facilitating that construction. Piece of cake, right? LOL! Oy vey.

[myrmaad]

I absolutely feel your pain.

In truth, most of my mod ideas never got, and never will get, off the ground at all simply because they're just too awesome. I make little bitty things all the time, and I do mean little bitty, but the really good stuff is simply beyond my wildest hopes.

 

For example, one major mod I planned was an epic of little odd discoveries all over Cyrodiil which led to clues and to more clues and to a search and finally to nothing less than finding the lost tomb of St. Alessia. Naturally, that sort of thing would make a lot of people very upset, ( imagine someone finding the body of mohammed or Jesus ) especially considering the curse on the tomb's seal... long story short--> civil war in Cyrodill, with everyone suddenly getting a re-assignment of factions so they'd choose sides and fight! The player's job would be to somehow get everyone to calm down and solve the mystery of the can of worms this opens, after which everything would return to normal, pretty much.

Yep, I fully share your problem.

Now all I want to do is let the player, as Champion of Cyrodill, build a sprawling estate, over time, via several quest stages during which the player does important stuff facilitating that construction. Piece of cake, right? LOL! Oy vey.

 

 

Both of these are actually really GOOD ideas, and both of these are actually do-able.

 

Let's start with the more humble or the two. You did find the mod around here that allows the player to build a house on Imperial Island? Look for that one and examine the scripts carefully. See if the creator gave permissions to use the mod as a resource (the scripts alone would be priceless for this task).

 

It simply requires a series of quests: a questline. As for sprawling estate: start with a nice home, a stable and a nice garden, all gated.

 

Once you get that together, then you can add a Valet or Caretaker or Maid NPC, (one) and a horse or a dog.

 

Get those working right, and add some more.

 

That's my advice, along with downloading similar mods and examining them for 'how they did it'. If you copy anything directly like a script or a resource, get permissions before you stake your mod on it. With scripting there's almost always more than one way to skin a cat.

 

 

Show us some progress, and when you get stuck ask questions. But as the grmblf said, break it down into smaller pieces and build on your successes.

[David Brasher]

Everyone else has covered this topic pretty well. Very good advice. I would say that you should make your mod modular and scalable. Build one little part of it and make it perfect, complete, and playable. Good enough to release. Then if you want to keep going, make another little complete piece that jives with the first. If you have enthusiasm and gain skill, someday maybe I will be downloading and playing your gigantic masterpiece!

[RGMage2]

It's good advice from everyone, :yes: but I'm going to go in the other direction here. :devil: It all comes down to why you are modding. If you are modding solely because you want to release things, then it would be best to stick to the simple things.

 

On the other hand, if you want to make changes or add content to the game because you yourself truly desire these changes, and you will do it for yourself and releasing will only be an afterthought. Then that changes the equation. :)

 

If you are doing it for yourself, then don't shy away from over reaching. Trying to do things you don't know how to do, that is how you learn. Having an idea is the first step. Next you must determine what tools/programs you will need. Then learn how to use those tools. Go as far as you can with your project, and when you hit the wall then you put it aside and try something else. You are not abandoning your project, you are only putting it on hold until you have the knowledge you require. It is not talent that you lack, it is knowledge. Knowledge is the key to everything. :geek:

 

Knowledge will lead to more knowledge, just as a second step follows a first step. Learned things will lead to more learned things. Something you learn in your first project may help you in your second project, and something you learn in your second project may help you resolve a problem in your first project. That is the way modding is for me, everything comes from or leads to somewhere else. There is no magic to it. It is an accumulation of knowledge that makes the impossible possible.

 

A good place to learn is the Beth CS forum. You don't even have to post, you can just lurk there and soak it all in. Lots of good reading. It may be something you don't need to know about right now, but when the time comes, you will remember reading about it, so at least you will know what to look for.

 

I started modding a couple of years ago. I had a simple idea that was doable. Then that idea grew until it was beyond my abilities. I took it as far as I could and then I moved on to something else, and then something else again. In every mod I have done (or attempted) I have learned things. And what was once difficult is not so difficult anymore. :yes:

 

Now 2 years later I have several releases, :cool: but those releases do not give me anywhere near as much pleasure as my 20+ wips at various stages of completion. Some of them will be released, while others will never be released, no matter how good they are. I will never be a well known modder, but that is OK because I mod for me. And because I mod for me, I do not require anyone else's approval or direction, and neither do you. :)

[madman132]

One Advice hasn't been given yet:

 

Refine your Ideas!

 

Take a little Look at your thought process; you probably have some Idea and then your Mind builds it up until it's so overblown that you come to the realization that you can't possibly make one tenth of your "Vision" real.

 

I'll take one of your Ideas as an Example, making the Talon Company more menacing.

 

For anyone not familiar with Fallout 3; the Talon company hires Mercenaries to assault the Player when he has good Karma, i.e. plays a good guy and doesn't kill everyone.

The Mercenaries can spawn somewhere the Player zones to and assault him.

 

 

You could just scale their Skills up a bit, so that they'll do more Damage. Give them more HP or something. Should be easy enough, you'll be punching Numbers.

It may be tedious to balance it, so that the Talons aren't too strong afterwards but with the right Balance the Player will curse a bit whenever he sees the talon guys.