Blender users, i need some help!

[aiden23]

hello, I'm new to modeling and am doing fairly well so far, getting some basic(crude and archaic) mesh works done to get the feel for it. but i have a few questions and requests for any of you Blender 3D users out there. i was wondering if first off any of you have some tips to help streamline my modeling process, right now my biggest time consumer of modeling the human body. what I'm doing is modeling each section (arms torso head legs) separately. for the torso and limbs i am using curves as a way to get a structure down, then converting said curves into a mesh, then mapping the faces to it that way (blender does the face mapping for me so its not that bad.) so I'm managing pretty well on my own, just looking for some tips to make the whole ordeal easier and more realistic and rewarding. also, if anyone is willing to donate a basic model of the male and female for so i can get some reference points and materials down, i would greatly appreciate it, you will get credit in my future projects if you do and i would love to keep in touch to show you what i have learned, this goes for anyone who can give me some help. if you choose to help me out, you can contact me at [email protected], just throw in something in the subject so i know its not spam. thank you for your time and i hope to hear back from someone out there. - Aiden

[rdamstrom]

First off I don't think to many people are going to stray to far from this forum to help you out so your going to have to come here and see if someone has take the time to help. there are a number of body's available on the tes nexus HGEC BAB Robert's female and male and a few others look for them and you will find them. there is also makehuman (google it) if your planing to put it in the game you should at least build it around the skeleton an head so you know it's going to fit

http://www.tesnexus.com/index.php

[LHammonds]

#1 - If you are modeling the human body, you have to know the human anatomy very well. Not only the general shape, but also the bones, muscles and organs...which all affect how the model is made and animated.

 

#2 - You must also take into consideration how each part bends during animation in order to create a topology the responds well...such as more polys around the mouth area that flows and matches the unseen bones and muscles beneath the skin.

 

I'll see if I can dig up a couple of sites that I remember regarding the creation of characters and articulation of the human body....although they are not specific to any modeling too, they do apply to all of them.

 

EDIT:

 

Modeling of Joan of Arc (3ds max tutorial but good for all tools. This tutorial is even recommended by professionals in game development)

Articulation by the seat of your pants

Real Time Character Modeling

Low-Poly Character Modeling

 

LHammonds

[thePhilanthropy]

the human body is very difficult to model. Especially if you want to achieve a fairly high amount of realism. Everyone will notice immediately if it looks wrong, simply because everyone is so familiar with it.

 

btw, all I know I learned the hard way. I'm much obliged to help you out here.

 

I'm not using Blender myself, but the software is actually not the most imortant thing. The methodology is key. The most difficult part is to create a good topology. Here are a few notes to consider:

1. For organic models, always try to create a very lowpoly model first, outlining the basic shape. It's an easy mistake to lose yourself in details too early on.

2. Try to keep all polygons quadrangular (as opposed to triangular). This will give the best results when mesh smoothing comes in. It's not necessary to have all polygons quads but most of them should be if want to achieve something smooth.

3. Learn to draw the human body by hand to get a feel for it. Study some anatomy books on basic skeletal and muscular features. The more you do this, the easier it will get for you to spot your own mistakes.

3a. Use reference material. Load some pictures into the 2d software of your choice (e.g. GIMP) and draw over the most notable contours. Try to create a general topoly in 2d first, using circles and loops. Somehting like this: click

This way you can quickly create a simple but powerful topology to refer to.

3b. Get yourself DAZ Studio. It's free and it comes with some very realistic human bodies. You can study them for reference.

4. DON'T model each part seperately. It's possible to do it like that, but that method is also very prone to produce bad results. A far superior method is to create the extremeties by extruding faces. It's quick and it doesn't break the flow of the overall model as easily.

5. btw, the male and female body are not very different in topology. The more you learn about one of them, the more you learn about the other.

 

maybe I'll add some more points later if I remember more. Bur keep in mind that modeling is just one step (quite a big one, though) of many that you will need to take. Once the lowpoly model is finished, you should wait before you finalize it. Many things are easier to do with a lowpoly mesh. UV-mapping and basic rigging/skinning get more difficlult the more complex the model is. Once everything is set, meshsmooth the model. You will keep the UV-map and the rigging will be easier to achieve if you start from there.

 

And on a more general note, read and practice a lot. Read some tutorials, but never be discouraged to experiment for yourself.

 

I hope that helps a little.

[aiden23]

wow, thanks alot you guys, i honestly didnt expect to get such great advice and feed back, im already working on a character model for one of my longtime WoW toons, i will post pics when i have some more significant milestones and i have been boggeling my brain with all the tips you guys have given me so far, thanks again i will keep in touch!

[rdamstrom]

the_philanthropy

Thanks for the info,I know this isn't my thread but since were all here anyway.I would like to know more if you have more to share. I checked out your body very nice, I don't know how that one slipped past me. but isn't she lacking a bit in the clothing department. As her creator are you not responsible for her well being. It's amazing how many would be creator's overlook that sort of thing. perhaps this goes back to the whole Adam and Eve thing.

[thePhilanthropy]

the_philanthropy

Thanks for the info,I know this isn't my thread but since were all here anyway.I would like to know more if you have more to share. I checked out your body very nice, I don't know how that one slipped past me. but isn't she lacking a bit in the clothing department. As her creator are you not responsible for her well being. It's amazing how many would be creator's overlook that sort of thing. perhaps this goes back to the whole Adam and Eve thing.

 

EDIT: this post will be more technical and way more engine-specific. But I couldn't really think of more general stuff...

 

yeah, my replacer is not very popular, is it? I guess it's because other replacers are so incredibly popular that all the alternatives are easily overlooked. Which is also the reason why noone is making clothes for it. Which again, doesn't help to make it more popular. Vicious circle...

 

But to be honest, that body model doesn't follow my own advise. At all. The reason is, of course, that I didn't know better back then. The topology is really bad.

I'm currently working on another replacer for FO3. That one will be better though. Mainly because of the topology. Instead of 30k polygons it will have only 10k, while still looking better and more defined.

 

What other tips can I give? hhmmmm...... let me think.

Oh, yeah. Oblivion and FO3 both use their own skeletons. Your model needs to fit that skeleton as nicely as possible. Again, it's a good idea to stay lowpoly until that works. All the joints, like shoulders, knees and elbows, should wrap around the skeletal joints nicely (the skeletal shoulder joint should be in the middle of the fleshy shoulder to allow transformations in every direction).

 

Which brings me to skinning, or better: Weight-painting. Much to do here, indeed. You can of course just go ahead and paint in all the weight. But don't be surprised when it looks very wrong when you test it ingame. My two most important tips concerning this are:

1. Rotate the bones in your 3d app. That will give you an immediate preview of the results. Just make sure you can go back to the original positions (before you export anyway). You can either remember how much you rotated each bone and reverse it once you're done --> bad idea. Or you can make a provisory animation --> better idea. You just select a bone, e.g. the left thigh, make a keyframe when it is in its initial position. Then go a few frames further, rotate the bone, and make another keyframe. Now you can always go back to the original position with ease.

2. Use the mirror functions. Best tip ever. For about every symmetrical 3d model. Mirror the geometry. Mirror the UV. Mirror the weight. Mirror the textures. And smooth out any seams. In that order.

 

Anything else? Oh, yes. Seams. The damn seams. How I hate them buggers.

Especially Oblivion (Fo3 not so much) expects the body to be seperated into several parts (several meshes); torso, arms, hands and so on. Why? Because certain clothes require only some parts to be visible. In first person perspective only the arms and hands are visible.

Now, how can you seperate your model without creating seams? Interesting to note how Bethesda doesn't seem to know how.... But I do. As do a lot of other modders.

Here's how you seperate the mesh into several meshes: You don't. Your 3d app, or better yet, the exporter can do that for you. But you have to tell it how to. Instead of going around copying and deleting stuff, you just assign different materials to different bodyparts. E.g. the torso gets material_1, the arms get material_2 and so on. You keep your single mesh in your 3d app and it only gets seperated in it's exported form. That way, the seams will not be visible ingame (provided the whole mesh uses the same texture).

 

But there's one seam you cannot fix, only approximate: The seam between body and head. In Oblivion, you will need to approximate, and fiddle around with the geometry and skinning until it looks alright. Only tip: Have some Aspirin handy.

In FO3 this is far easier, because Bethesda didn't screw up here. You just take the original body mesh and copy the positions and skin-weights of the seam vertices from the original to your own model. Oughta work alright. Same deal for the hands.

 

 

all this also depends on the software you're using. But if Blender really is as versatile as everyone claims, you should be able to find the necessary functions.

 

I can't really think of more right now. But if anyone has question or needs clarifications, ask away.

 

If anyone needs help in 3ds max, I will probably be able to get very specific. For other software, try googling.

Thing you may want to google:

blender + weightpainting

blender + mirror + uv

blender + keyframes

 

 

PS: I'm surprised there haven't been any troll attacks so far in this thread à la "u suc !1! y dnt u use hgce?! nize tits rolf"

 

PPS: If you guys want, I may be bothered to write an article about this...

[rdamstrom]

I don't know that blender has those features but I guess one could just use a full body slot config and not everybody is sold on HGEC . Thanks for the Tips

[aiden23]

well im personally learning alot from this. im glad no trolls have appeared, cause it saves whats left of my sanity. and thanks a load to the_philanthropy, you made me feel a little better about my crude and very poor rendering of a person. this is actually looking to be a lot of fun for me, a good test to see if i want to do something like this for the rest of my life as opposed to going to school and wasting years and money only to find out half way through i dont like it. for those thinking of getting into any type of 3D animation, i definitely suggest any free program out there and trying it on your own first, Blender is a decent one, and the UI is very friendly, once you get used to it.

[aiden23]

also to be completely honest and fair, i came here to find out about 3D rendering mostly for just fun, if i get good at it, i may think about modding as well, but for starting, i just want to animate and create some interesting stills for vanity. the reasons i came here was because i figured the people here would be more down to earth (i.e. not either doing a whole lot of formal schooling, or what not) more the type of person like me, just doing this because he enjoys it. and 2 because you all have a working knowledge of facets of the programs that sometimes get overlooked or not enough emphasis in a classroom setting.