Should we be able to use animals in Pharmaceutical reasearch

[Balagor]

Well I guess this is bad news for diabetics, as insulin is made from and tested on sheep.

 

Says the doctor, "Sorry Mr. Jones, your child will die from diabetic shock because the sheep have just as many rights as humans do, even though all they have are instincts and no tangible concept of today, tomorrow, yesterday, love, a sense of self, or anything else that would qualify them as being on par with humans. I'm sure it makes you feel better knowing that diabetics are less valuable than the rights of ovines."

 

;)

 

The world spread but danish company Novo Nordisk has for years produced insuline from artificial produced enzymes.

[ginnyfizz]

Not all alternatives are widely available in all countries though, with all the different licensing issues, and by no means all doctors, or patients, for whatever reason, are always aware of the alternatives. In Britain they can refuse to licence stuff on grounds of cost.

 

You just CANNOT see this in terms of black and white. I know a lot of animal rights fanatics say you can, but you can't.

[dezdimona]

Synthetic insulin was first made in 1978 by scientists at Genetech, Inc. and City of Hope National Medical Center. This achievement was a giant step forward in insulin production for people with diabetes.

 

Previously, pig and cattle pancreas glands were the only viable method of production. While sufficient for most diabetics, the use of animals to produce insulin did cause some allergic reactions, as it was not a true human match to insulin.

 

 

Scientists use recombinant DNA gene technology to synthesize insulin. Insulin is composed of two amino acid chains that are joined together. The "A" chain has 21 amino acids, while the "B" chain has 30.

 

These amino acid chains have a specific order. The process is somewhat complicated so the following is an excerpt from the Genetech press release explaining the actual scientific process:

 

Insulin is a protein hormone composed of two chains of amino acids: an "A" chain and a "B" chain linked together by two disulfide bonds. The "A" chain is composed of 21 amino acids and the "B" chain of 30 amino acids, each arranged in a uniquely ordered sequence.

 

Proteins are made by translating the genetic information which is carried in a cell's genes. Scientists synthesized in the laboratory genes for the two insulin "A" and "B" chains. This was accomplished by chemically linking together small pieces of DNA sequence and then joining them in a specific manner to form complete genes.

 

Once the genes were synthesized, they were stitched into circular DNA strands called "plasmids" using special enzymes to perform the molecular surgery. Plasmids are rings of DNA which are found within the cell. The newly constructed plasmids containing the transplanted genetic material were introduced into a benign E. coli bacterial strain.

 

Once inside the bacteria, the genes were "switched-on" by the bacteria to translate the code into either the "A" chain or the "B" chain proteins found in insulin. The process is the same as that used by bacteria to produce its own proteins.

 

When the cells produced sufficient amounts of the "A" and "B" chains, they were harvested to isolate these proteins from the bacteria and purify it. The two chains were then combined chemically in the laboratory to form the complete Insulin molecule which is identical to that produced by the human body.

 

There you have it. Everything you always wanted to now about synthetic insulin production.

 

 

Source:

 

Genetech, Inc., gene.com, Press Releases, Wednesday September 6, 1978.

 

Seems many don't know of what they speak so I provided this bit of information.

[Balagor]

Synthetic insulin was first made in 1978 by scientists at Genetech, Inc. and City of Hope National Medical Center. This achievement was a giant step forward in insulin production for people with diabetes.

 

Previously, pig and cattle pancreas glands were the only viable method of production. While sufficient for most diabetics, the use of animals to produce insulin did cause some allergic reactions, as it was not a true human match to insulin.

 

 

Scientists use recombinant DNA gene technology to synthesize insulin. Insulin is composed of two amino acid chains that are joined together. The "A" chain has 21 amino acids, while the "B" chain has 30.

 

These amino acid chains have a specific order. The process is somewhat complicated so the following is an excerpt from the Genetech press release explaining the actual scientific process:

 

Insulin is a protein hormone composed of two chains of amino acids: an "A" chain and a "B" chain linked together by two disulfide bonds. The "A" chain is composed of 21 amino acids and the "B" chain of 30 amino acids, each arranged in a uniquely ordered sequence.

 

Proteins are made by translating the genetic information which is carried in a cell's genes. Scientists synthesized in the laboratory genes for the two insulin "A" and "B" chains. This was accomplished by chemically linking together small pieces of DNA sequence and then joining them in a specific manner to form complete genes.

 

Once the genes were synthesized, they were stitched into circular DNA strands called "plasmids" using special enzymes to perform the molecular surgery. Plasmids are rings of DNA which are found within the cell. The newly constructed plasmids containing the transplanted genetic material were introduced into a benign E. coli bacterial strain.

 

Once inside the bacteria, the genes were "switched-on" by the bacteria to translate the code into either the "A" chain or the "B" chain proteins found in insulin. The process is the same as that used by bacteria to produce its own proteins.

 

When the cells produced sufficient amounts of the "A" and "B" chains, they were harvested to isolate these proteins from the bacteria and purify it. The two chains were then combined chemically in the laboratory to form the complete Insulin molecule which is identical to that produced by the human body.

 

There you have it. Everything you always wanted to now about synthetic insulin production.

 

 

Source:

 

Genetech, Inc., gene.com, Press Releases, Wednesday September 6, 1978.

 

Seems many don't know of what they speak so I provided this bit of information.

 

Well, I need to have a phd to understand this. Question is: could it have been achieved merely in the lab. without testing on animals?

I would allow the testing on me. In a situation been sick, chances are to either die from my disease or die from a test. OR it could

be die from disease or SURVIVE the test with some medicine actually working.

[ginnyfizz]

At the time Banting and Best made their breakthrough, bear in mind that this was in 1922, no, they did not have the ability to produce non-animal insulin, especially as Crick and Watson did not discover the DNA double helix structure until the 1950's

 

DNA - Crick and Watson

 

Insulin may well be able to be produced in three different ways, - animal derived, DNA synthesised or more recently, plant synthesised, but as I said before, it really depends where you live as to what you are getting, which is licensed and what isn't. And sorry again, but most people with a life threatening condition would not give a monkey's whether their insulin/thyroxine was animal tested/derived or not. I'm asthmatic, but when I start to wheeze, I don't ask if any lab animals suffered before I take a puff of my salbutamol. I ain't that ready for martyrdom. I suffer from arthritis, and to keep me working and moving I have to take NSAID's, and I don't enquire where they came from either.

[Balagor]

Well, being bipolar , i have been quite a ginny pig myself, to use a word i don´t like. I am aware the medicine i need has been testet on animals.

If possible i would agree to volunteer to tests for new medicines. It is as a matter of facts possible to a limited degree.

Perhaps envolving more human ginny pigs would clean up in some dead end researching, and focus on some more serious projects.

[Mr Ham]

One could argue that animals are without the same level of cognition as humans and therefore their lives are 'worth less' than humans. After all, its only natural for someone to value themselves more highly than, say, a goldfish which has abysmal levels of cognition in comparison. However, in pondering this concept, we have to define what is being valued, which will definitely get quick philosophical (which admittedly I'm not very well versed in).

[Marxist ßastard]

However, in pondering this concept, we have to define what is being valued, which will definitely get quick philosophical (which admittedly I'm not very well versed in).

Not really. Think of it this way:

 

Would you sacrifice your life to save a nation?

A respected leader?

A friend?

A bum off the street?

A family dog?

A wild goat?

A pigeon?

An eel?

A fruit fly?

A shrub?

A bacterium?

A virus?

 

Everybody has their limit. Life has value. That value is finite, quantifiable, and universally known. And it is not the same for humans and animals, any more than it is for animals and bacteria. So it's really a question of economics rather than philosophy.

[JimboUK]

One of the greatest things that separates us from animals is compassion, by treating them as we do we lose that difference and are no better than they are. In fact those that make these creatures suffer are worse than any animal, they know the suffering they're causing and yet continue to do it.

[jaosals42]

I know personally that I wouldn't give up my life to such research, but that doesn't change my opinion about how the treatment of animals conducted in such experiments is beyond description... What about making all of such cures/medicines from plants rather, or is someone going to step in and say that plants have just as many right as well...

 

Well, something has to give... I personally, would use the plants first before animals, though even then, certain ethics have to be placed and enforced so plants don't go extinct or whatnot.