Should we be able to use animals in Pharmaceutical reasearch

[Marxist ßastard]

What about making all of such cures/medicines from plants

Actually, most medicines that can't be made synthetically are manufactured using genetically modified bacteria (Humilin is an example; see earlier in the thread). Animals aren't used much in production, but are required for testing because FDA regulations forbid human testing before animal studies have established some level of safety. And at every point where animals are used, most alternatives have already been exhausted (simply because they're less expensive).

 

Nobody in the pharmaceutical industry wakes up with a smile on his face, gets in a large black van, and goes around slaughtering stray cats all day for sadistic pleasure. Animals are bred because they are more valuable than the resources used to feed and house them. (Keep in mind also that the overwhelming majority of animals used in testing would not otherwise have been born.) Animal testing is done because saving a human life would create even more value. It's all a very reasonable, and necessary, economic exchange.

[jaosals42]

What about making all of such cures/medicines from plants

Actually, most medicines that can't be made synthetically are manufactured using genetically modified bacteria (Humilin is an example; see earlier in the thread). Animals aren't used much in production, but are required for testing because FDA regulations forbid human testing before animal studies have established some level of safety.

 

Nobody in the pharmaceutical industry wakes up with a smile on his face, gets in a large black van, and goes around slaughtering stray cats all day for sadistic pleasure. Animals are bred because they are more valuable than the resources used to feed and house them. (Keep in mind also that the overwhelming majority of animals used in testing would not otherwise have been born.) Animal testing is done because saving a human life would create even more value. It's all a very reasonable, and necessary, economic exchange.

 

I understand that there's a need for animal testing for such things to a certain extent for helping us in terms of health and economically, though I think that the few of those people who do go around slaughtering the animals are the ones that make me so angry about the idea. I know it's necessary if we expect to live past 50 years of age with the cures and medicines we get off of such studies... Though they really ought to deal more harshly with the few that have the audacity to go and abuse the animals.

 

If all of the guys experimenting on them were following the proper ethical methods to make sure the animals were being treated necessarily and not receiving forms of abuse nor malnutrition, I'd have less of a problem with the issue as a whole. Those few idiots that hurt the animals knowingly and carelessly are the ones that make it as controversial an issue as it is now.

[Marxist ßastard]

This isn't the wild west or Frankenstein's laboratory. There are rules.

 

The FDA is the organization which mandates animal testing in the first place, and they have a lot to say about how it's done. State governments also enforce their own regulations.

 

Economics plays a part too. Someone brought up an example of dogs undergoing surgery so they can't bark. This isn't done in research. It's cheaper to investigate what's causing them to bark, to soundproof their living spaces, or to not use dogs in the first place.

 

There's also professional ethics involved. Many of the things which make a good person also make a good biochemical engineer. Most of the people who do animal testing aim to work as little as possible. And cruelty, when discovered, is reported and punished.

[dezdimona]

This isn't done in research. It's cheaper to investigate what's causing them to bark

it is done.My girlfriend works there.cages full of them.there not investigating what makes them bark,its " medical not scientific" research

[ginnyfizz]

Although a lot of research involves observing the physiological AND psychological reactions of an animal to what is being tested, so therefore whether or not an animal is squeaking, barking or yelping would be an integral part of that research. I have a relative who works for one of the labs who has borne the brunt of the animal rights terrorists activity here in the UK, and that's all the detail you are getting because I don't want him getting a bomb under his car. No swivel-eyed blood dripping fanatic he - and as he says, they want the animals to be humanely treated, or the tests would throw odd results anyway .

[JimboUK]

This isn't the wild west or Frankenstein's laboratory. There are rules.

 

The FDA is the organization which mandates animal testing in the first place, and they have a lot to say about how it's done. State governments also enforce their own regulations.

 

Economics plays a part too. Someone brought up an example of dogs undergoing surgery so they can't bark. This isn't done in research. It's cheaper to investigate what's causing them to bark, to soundproof their living spaces, or to not use dogs in the first place.

 

There's also professional ethics involved. Many of the things which make a good person also make a good biochemical engineer. Most of the people who do animal testing aim to work as little as possible. And cruelty, when discovered, is reported and punished.

 

I take it you've not seen the undercover footage taken by channel 4 from Huntingdon Life Sciences, this quality of this video is poor but you can quite clearly see the abuse these animals suffer and the enjoyment the ones inflicting it get from their actions. They've been prosecuted on numerous occasions but are still is business. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88kMJXphN0k

[ginnyfizz]

Yes I have, actually. No one says that everything that goes on at animal testing labs is done perfectly and that no cruelty ever goes on. You get bad apples in every bunch, but the type of behaviour shown there is NOT the norm. That footage is from 1997 so I understand.

 

I wish, personally, that footage of elderly dementia patients being abused by their "carers" provoked such high emotion. But no, these poor old folks are not fluffy and appealing I guess.

 

I have also personally taken part in pharmaceutical trials as a volunteer, before you ask. I believe all human trials have to be VOLUNTARY.

 

But, I firmly believe that animal research is still in many instances necessary.

[Marxist ßastard]

Researchers have more of a disincentive against cruelty than do pet owners. That's really the core of the issue here.

[myrmaad]

I wish, personally, that footage of elderly dementia patients being abused by their "carers" provoked such high emotion. But no, these poor old folks are not fluffy and appealing I guess.

 

 

That's really an unbelievable assumption. I personally was fired over 25 years ago from an "old folks home" when I dared complain about the conditions of the elderly, and tried to alleviate them as best I could as an 18yo minimum wage nurse's assistant.

 

I'm pretty sure people who tend to feel compassion, feel it for all helpless creatures.

[Kendo 2]

Human beings are superior to animals, no matter the type or qualifiers. When faced with survival, humans will prey on other animals or one another. I've seen it first hand.

 

If any of you were handed a loaded gun and given the choice of killing an animal or a human being, that choice would be clear. Forget the legal or moral/religious consequences, who is going to die? So yes, the life of an animal is ALWAYS expendable when confronted with the alternative of a human being dying. When given the choice between the death of a loved one or the death of a stranger, what would the choice be?

 

Research or not, humans come first. Human beings live at the expense of lower life forms and one another. To have high-minded Greek ideals is all well and good, and those ideals have nothing to do with human survival. It is what it is. To claim otherwise is folly.

 

BUT as human beings we need to weigh the aspects of what is REQUIRED and what is superfluous tinkering or experimentation. As the top species on this planet we are duty bound to do the right thing. People first, everything after that...well...sorry about your spot on the wheel of life.