Do you need a law to behave

[Balagor]

I thought I read in here somewhere, it was mentioned that there is a certain "pay it forward" or"karma" aspect to all of this IE "He/She will get theirs in the end" or "What comes around goes around"... This cannot be a factor because it has no real application for it does not exist. Things people call karma or what have you as I pointed out above is in fact what is called in psychology "Magical Thinking". The idea that doing or failing to do something will directly affect or not something in the future whether it be good or not has been scientifically proved invalid. Yet we do this on a regular basis even myself. It is in fact part of an anxiety disorder known as Obsessive-Compulsive disorder but generally speaking most people that otherwise function normally and do not have OCD but still partake in "magical thinking are in fact displaying a similar disorder known as Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder. However just because someone displays traits of either disorder is not an indicator that the person is inflicted with the disorder it may just be how they were raised to be "superstitious or karmic inclined", and thus there signs of disorder stems from a learned behavior... Phew

 

IE: My money is in my purse I don't want to take my purse with me to the Salon. I need to make an appointment though if I take my money my stylist will not be there but if I leave my money in the SUV my stylist will be there thus causing me to have to go back out to my SUV to get my money.

 

Doing good deeds does not in fact purchase some intangible good fuel that is stored in a karma fuel tank and in fact has it has been scientifically proved that in society no good deed really does go unpunished.

 

I can and would come up with the scientific data to support these claims though if asked I probably will not as it really does not matter to me whether someone believes this or not because once fixated people rarely change an opinion.

 

Karma has indeed to do with ones behavior, weather it is atatched to a law or not.

Karma does not nessacerely mean that if you do something bad to day, you will get hit by a lightning stroke to morrow.

Karma can be that inner peace you can find within your self, knowing that you do what is right, accordind to your own codex.

Karma can also be a torment if one is in constant pain and unease, due to conflicts within the mind, because of some misdoing or behavior that one actually does not agree with.

[WaLkAwaY]

Karma has indeed to do with ones behavior, weather it is atatched to a law or not.

Karma does not nessacerely mean that if you do something bad to day, you will get hit by a lightning stroke to morrow.

Karma can be that inner peace you can find within your self, knowing that you do what is right, accordind to your own codex.

Karma can also be a torment if one is in constant pain and unease, due to conflicts within the mind, because of some misdoing or behavior that one actually does not agree with.

 

Which is exactly the point. Everything you stated is either rooted in or ends up being part of a psychological process.

[Sharkull]

Karma has indeed to do with ones behavior, weather it is atatched to a law or not.

Karma does not nessacerely mean that if you do something bad to day, you will get hit by a lightning stroke to morrow.

Karma can be that inner peace you can find within your self, knowing that you do what is right, accordind to your own codex.

Karma can also be a torment if one is in constant pain and unease, due to conflicts within the mind, because of some misdoing or behavior that one actually does not agree with.

 

Which is exactly the point. Everything you stated is either rooted in or ends up being part of a psychological process.

There is a big difference between what Balagor describes and your so called "Magical Thinking". Balagor's outlook on Karma is rational, not magical.

[WaLkAwaY]

Karma has indeed to do with ones behavior, weather it is atatched to a law or not.

Karma does not nessacerely mean that if you do something bad to day, you will get hit by a lightning stroke to morrow.

Karma can be that inner peace you can find within your self, knowing that you do what is right, accordind to your own codex.

Karma can also be a torment if one is in constant pain and unease, due to conflicts within the mind, because of some misdoing or behavior that one actually does not agree with.

 

Which is exactly the point. Everything you stated is either rooted in or ends up being part of a psychological process.

There is a big difference between what Balagor describes and your so called "Magical Thinking". Balagor's outlook on Karma is rational, not magical.

 

You might be taking "Magical" in the literal sense of the word which when I think of the word magical I think of unicorns and dragons and spells. That is not how the term is meant in psychology. But my last post still remains true. Regardless if the outlook is rational or not it is still a psychological process that brings anyone who thinks that way to that rationality. It just happens to be what ever mind set you happen to be in. For example someone with a compulsion to check the stove 10 times to make sure it is off might think in their state of mind that it is rational. Just an example.

 

I was simply stating the fact that Karma and superstition are products of magical thinking which is all tied together by psychological processes. It is fact because it has been scientifically proved several times that Karma and Superstition are not valid. However these are not the only ways of magical thinking. Anyway... I digress I think I inadvertently hijacked this thread for which I am sorry and will now let it get back to laws. Which I think the OP meant actual government laws not moral laws but I thought I saw a comment about morality and karma and such. Take care.

[Vagrant0]

The western notion of Karma is rather backwards compared to the Hindu concept. Karma isn't something that you want to obtain since it denotes a connection with the mortal plane, and often people go to great lengths to avoid collecting Karma.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

 

The western interpretation is really much more rooted in personal greed and wanting to be rewarded for good deeds NOW instead of waiting for them to be appreciated after death.

 

In both cases, although we would like to believe otherwise, karma rarely ever comes back to those who have performed bad deeds. One example being Bernie Madoff. He stole from many people, ruined many lives, and although convicted, sits in a minimum security prison, and probably wouldn't have been caught or found out if he didn't turn himself in. He lives safe and secure while the lives of those he has had dealings with fell to pieces overnight. Deeds of this magnitude simply can't be punished to the extent they deserve. That whole "no cruel or unusual" punishment thing also puts a limit on things.

[Robok]

A logical person does not need law to tell him or her that she shouldn't steal from others or kill others, it just makes sense not to be an idiot and do that. But in reality, people do all sorts of stupid things, even with the high risk of being caught, this is sadly why I think we cannot abandon law even if the thought of anarchy seems like a better idea.

 

I thought I read in here somewhere, it was mentioned that there is a certain "pay it forward" or"karma" aspect to all of this IE "He/She will get theirs in the end" or "What comes around goes around"... This cannot be a factor because it has no real application for it does not exist. Things people call karma or what have you as I pointed out above is in fact what is called in psychology "Magical Thinking". The idea that doing or failing to do something will directly affect or not something in the future whether it be good or not has been scientifically proved invalid. Yet we do this on a regular basis even myself. It is in fact part of an anxiety disorder known as Obsessive-Compulsive disorder but generally speaking most people that otherwise function normally and do not have OCD but still partake in "magical thinking are in fact displaying a similar disorder known as Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder. However just because someone displays traits of either disorder is not an indicator that the person is inflicted with the disorder it may just be how they were raised to be "superstitious or karmic inclined", and thus there signs of disorder stems from a learned behavior... Phew

 

IE: My money is in my purse I don't want to take my purse with me to the Salon. I need to make an appointment though if I take my money my stylist will not be there but if I leave my money in the SUV my stylist will be there thus causing me to have to go back out to my SUV to get my money.

 

Doing good deeds does not in fact purchase some intangible good fuel that is stored in a karma fuel tank and in fact has it has been scientifically proved that in society no good deed really does go unpunished.

 

I can and would come up with the scientific data to support these claims though if asked I probably will not as it really does not matter to me whether someone believes this or not because once fixated people rarely change an opinion.

 

There is no application of science which can actually prove or debunk karma. Simply put because you do not know that in the timeline in which you didn't do the good deed. Are you familiar with the Butterfly Effect theory? That the simplest change in time could have enormous effects on everything and everyone? Well this is one area where it applies. Thing is, you _can't_ prove it, you'd need a time machine to go back in time and test if it's true or not, whether you would have gotten your car overheat on you while going to work if you had given that hobo some charity or not.

 

That is not to mention that you can't randomly link an action to another unless they are logically connected. For instance lets assume that on your way to school or work or whatever, you saw a rope that could trip people, you decided to remove it, then you got to school and had a test you didn't know about, scored badly, and then went back home, only this time your mind wasn't on the road and if that rope was there you could've tripped.

 

Now if we link the first even of removing the rope to the test, it wouldn't make sense, but if we link removing the rope to not tripping, then it makes sense.

 

This is largely related to how you interpret things, but some things you said were absurd, for instance:

"Doing good deeds does not in fact purchase some intangible good fuel that is stored in a karma fuel tank and in fact has it has been scientifically proved that in society no good deed really does go unpunished."

I'm thinking the background to that statement is the random occurrence of good and bad things in life, and not directly linking them together. Like doing something good as a 9 years old kid and then getting in a fight at the age of 14, and saying the two are linked.

[evilkoal]

i believe there should be no laws. if you cant survive without laws, then you do not deserve to live. that is my opinion. i should be able to do whatever the hell i want, and anybody that doesnt have the power to stop me shouldnt be able to. i believe in a world where strength prevails, not laws to protect the weak. f-ck the weak, they dont deserve to live. the weak are why our world is turning to crap, they are clogging up our gene pool with useless DNA and things that obviously dont work but are allowed to go on anyway.

[Balagor]

i believe there should be no laws. if you cant survive without laws, then you do not deserve to live. that is my opinion. i should be able to do whatever the hell i want, and anybody that doesnt have the power to stop me shouldnt be able to. i believe in a world where strength prevails, not laws to protect the weak. f-ck the weak, they dont deserve to live. the weak are why our world is turning to crap, they are clogging up our gene pool with useless DNA and things that obviously dont work but are allowed to go on anyway.

 

Be prepared then that you can turn out being the weak.

Like in the animal world, someone stronger than you,

could come and steal your food and stuff.

Are you not able to get it back by intimidating or fighting,

you will be the weak, and loose.

Someone stronger can steel your females (to stay in animal world)

so your DNA pool is wasted.

[Aecko]

Personally? No. I have a strong set of morals thanks to my parents. If I ever did anything wrong, it is sure to guilt me for awhile. I always try to make amends.

 

Though, I do believe laws are necessary to govern the masses. You cannot trust people to follow moral guidelines in a massive society. You cannot expect everyone to play fairly. A simple, "Hey guys-- let's all play by the rules, all right?" is not going to cut it. There needs to be tangible consequences for malicious and unfair acts. As a civilized race (or so I hope), we need to protect the weak-- the poor, the elderly, the sick, etc. as they can not always do it themselves.

 

I do not think laws should reach a militant level, though. As long as you are not harming anyone, do whatever makes you happy. Legalize weed. Allow homosexuals to marry. Etc. The beauty of life is our ability of choice- let us not limit that.

[antonkr]

Whats the diffrence between chaotic and lawful? (my english ain't no good)